A first attempt at something arty

In article l-
september.org, says...

On Jan 1, 2021, Melanie van Buren wrote
(in article ):

On 01/01/2021 18:51, Bill W wrote:
On Jan 1, 2021, Melanie van Buren wrote
(in article ):

On 01/01/2021 10:39, Alfred Molon wrote:
Do you want to continue doing self-portraits or try shooting
other people? In the latter case it's more easy to get
interesting results.

Oh, gee. Thanks. (**** off.)

That?s an odd reaction to what I thought was intended as neutral, and
helpful commentary. If you are that sensitive to *perceived* slights, you
should hide your photos, not post them in public forums.

He was talking at cross purposes from the start and pretty much ignored
everything I discussed like he was pushing an agenda and because he
hadn't shown much goodwill or flexibility I took his comment as a not so
subtle personal dig. Like, hello? The person in the photo is a human
being too which he forgot. I'm sure he looks wonderful too.

I didn?t see it that way at all. I thought he was saying that you would get
more interesting results because you have no control over another person, and
complete control over yourself. I didn?t read anything into his comments
about your personal appearance. You are an attractive woman, so your reaction
just seems way too touchy.

To explain it in more simple words, it's challenging/limiting to
take portraits of people if these are selfies. You have to
position the camera, find a way of actuating the shutter,
setting the camera parameter and so on.

If instead you are photographing somebody else, you can entirely
focus on the creative process. It's much more easy to get
good/interesting photos.

But it seems that Melanie misunderstood my post. By the way, I
also think she is an attractive and photogenic woman.
--
Alfred Molon

Olympus 4/3 and micro 4/3 cameras forum at
https://groups.io/g/myolympus
https://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site

On 01/01/2021 19:32, Bill W wrote:
On Jan 1, 2021, Melanie van Buren wrote
(in article ):

He was talking at cross purposes from the start and pretty much ignored
everything I discussed like he was pushing an agenda and because he
hadn't shown much goodwill or flexibility I took his comment as a not so
subtle personal dig. Like, hello? The person in the photo is a human
being too which he forgot. I'm sure he looks wonderful too.

I didn’t see it that way at all. I thought he was saying that you would get
more interesting results because you have no control over another person, and
complete control over yourself. I didn’t read anything into his comments
about your personal appearance. You are an attractive woman, so your reaction
just seems way too touchy.

Thanks but there's been a few times online when something could have
been innocent or a deliberate subtext and I tend to give this things
pushback now before anything gets out of hand. There's random people out
there who can take their **** out on you if they can't get what they
want or have some jealousy **** going on. I also have the personality
fault of being snappy at times.

As for photography I would like to do pictures with meaning and not too
cynical. The photograph I published isn't my best nor do I especially
like it for various reasons and I could have published other variants
which kind of go over the line which I don't like for other reasons so
those won't get published. I actually sell my pictures (yes I do make
money off them) but still want them to be meaningful and fairly clean
and not fall into any one of a number of lazy visual tropes. "Male gaze"
aside at the other extreme I'm not especially interested in producing
subjective introspective feminist art which can be a royal pain in its
own right. I guess I could quote Helmut Newton (although he wouldn't be
the first and only person to express the thought) and say I'm not sure
what I'm looking for until I find it and, I think, this is kind of what
is underlying some of the problems and opportunities with photography.

We exist surrounded by a deluge of images today. Many (not all) are
advertising driven or advertising influenced. I don't like these as they
are often false and self-promoting. I don't like some erotic art because
of its connotations. I'm wary of anything too political because of
polarisation. I'm crap at acting so don't have good control of my
exterior emotions and feel a total dork practising in the mirror
although I have taken some daft photos I'm happy with. So yes there's a
lot to work through including plenty of brain farts and therapy issues,
and it's a personal journey and sometimes a shared journey as much as
anything else.

--
Melanie van Buren

On 01/01/2021 20:28, Alfred Molon wrote:

To explain it in more simple words, it's challenging/limiting to
take portraits of people if these are selfies. You have to
position the camera, find a way of actuating the shutter,
setting the camera parameter and so on.

If instead you are photographing somebody else, you can entirely
focus on the creative process. It's much more easy to get
good/interesting photos.

But it seems that Melanie misunderstood my post. By the way, I
also think she is an attractive and photogenic woman.

Thanks. Explanation accepted.

Yes I get the issue of self-portraits versus portraits. Self-portraits
can be difficult and challenging to produce. At the same time it would
cost me more money than I make off them both directly and indirectly to
hire a photographer and I wouldn't benefit much even if I wrote the cost
off as advertising. That theoretically could change but requires a lot
of other things to be in place which is another bother of its own.

I'm not hugely motivated to take pictures of other people or photographs
in general as I find it breaks the moment or ruins a good walk. Maybe
some other time but not for now.

--
Melanie van Buren