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DSLR sales. Only two ways they can go



 
 
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  #21  
Old July 28th 15, 02:07 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
PeterN[_6_]
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Posts: 4,254
Default DSLR sales. Only two ways they can go

On 7/27/2015 7:51 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , PeterN
wrote:

I see. Sorry. I missed the connection between "most systems," and your
statement to the effect that one cannot hear music without microphones
and speakers.


i never mentioned microphones.

you *really* ought to quit before you dig yourself an even deeper hole.


Assuming your statement is correct, you are still wrong. My statement
above has been changed to reflect that. I know to ask you to stop being
an asshole is an exercise in futility. Since my point is made, there is
no further need to continue.

--
PeterN
  #22  
Old July 28th 15, 02:28 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
PeterN[_6_]
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Posts: 4,254
Default DSLR sales. Only two ways they can go

On 7/27/2015 9:21 PM, RichA wrote:
On Monday, 27 July 2015 10:52:23 UTC-4, peterN wrote:
On 7/27/2015 5:42 AM, nospam wrote:
In article , Bill W
wrote:

Not such a great analogy. Cameras are used as tools with a purpose,
and some purposes require greater quality than others. CD's have one
purpose, listening to music. Another problem is that lots of folks -
maybe most - clearly don't care at all about sound quality. Some of
the codecs & specs that are used are simply not very good. Oddly
enough, vinyl is having its own upward blip, because some people think
it sounds better. I think that's a good development, even if those
people are crazy...

they're hipsters who think it's cool.

They also think hiss = warmth.

and distortion.

Part of the problem, or maybe the whole
problem, became crystal clear to me many years ago. I bought a Mobile
Fidelity Sound Labs album, and the sound was amazing.

i have a couple of those.

That was before
CD's came out, and when the CD of that album came out, I couldn't wait
to listen to it. I assumed it would be beyond belief. Well, it sucked.
Flat, lifeless, everything you always hear from the vinyl nuts. But it
was representative of the overall problem. It was simply badly done.
Very badly done. It really was hit or miss back then.

early cds were poorly mastered, which has nothing to do with being
digital.

cds are much better than vinyl ever could dream of.

Another thing many people just don't understand is that if you listen
to one of those really great sounding vinyl LP's from years ago on
high end equipment, you will soon realize that the sound on that LP is
total crap, and it was simply being "healed" by a crappy sound system
that masked all of the flaws.

vinyl has always been total crap. it's that there wasn't anything
better until cds came along.

it's a tiny needle wiggling in a groove. it's horribly primitive.


So says the judgemental one, while not mentioning that lots of people
like the sound of vinyl.
While waiting at a light this morning, some A-hole was playing digital
sounds with a booming bass, that my car was shaking, and the sound
through closed windows, was drowning out the sound of my radio.

--
PeterN


Some cities (Miami?) have laws against that, I think theirs is that you can't play it loud enough so someone can clearly hear it 20ft away with your car windows closed.


If I had my druthers, I would like to see the vehicles equipped like
that, when used by those inconsiderate *******s in th emanner I
described, confiscated, their radios permanently disabled, and the
drivers ears permanently plugged.

--
PeterN
  #23  
Old July 28th 15, 02:34 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Bill W
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Posts: 1,692
Default DSLR sales. Only two ways they can go

On Mon, 27 Jul 2015 18:18:43 -0700 (PDT), RichA
wrote:

On Sunday, 26 July 2015 23:34:19 UTC-4, Bill W wrote:
On Sun, 26 Jul 2015 19:58:09 -0700 (PDT), RichA
wrote:

Either they level off, somewhere around 50% of their
sales in 2010 or less, or in three years, DSLR sales
will be almost non-existent.


It depends. If the mfr's can march on with technical improvements, and
the advantage of DSLR's over anything else remains sizable enough,
maybe not.

If this sounds alarmist, check out CD or vinyl sales from
their highest sales year till now. The drop in sales isn't
some minor economic blip, it's an evolution of the market.


Not such a great analogy. Cameras are used as tools with a purpose,
and some purposes require greater quality than others. CD's have one
purpose, listening to music. Another problem is that lots of folks -
maybe most - clearly don't care at all about sound quality. Some of
the codecs & specs that are used are simply not very good. Oddly
enough, vinyl is having its own upward blip, because some people think
it sounds better. I think that's a good development, even if those
people are crazy...


Kind of like cellphone users who used to have cameras?


I'd say kind of. If the phone suits their purposes, their previous
camera probably wasn't much better, or if it was, they had no idea how
to use anything but the shutter. Besides that, today's cell cameras
are pretty good, and the IQ on some of them will obviously be better
than on some cameras.
  #24  
Old July 28th 15, 03:10 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
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Posts: 24,165
Default DSLR sales. Only two ways they can go

In article , PeterN
wrote:

While waiting at a light this morning, some A-hole was playing digital
sounds with a booming bass, that my car was shaking, and the sound
through closed windows, was drowning out the sound of my radio.


Some cities (Miami?) have laws against that, I think theirs is that you
can't play it loud enough so someone can clearly hear it 20ft away with
your car windows closed.


If I had my druthers, I would like to see the vehicles equipped like
that, when used by those inconsiderate *******s in th emanner I
described, confiscated, their radios permanently disabled, and the
drivers ears permanently plugged.


you might be able to have your wish if they're in one of the recalled
chrysler vehicles.
  #25  
Old July 28th 15, 10:38 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
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Posts: 24,165
Default DSLR sales. Only two ways they can go

In article ,
Whisky-dave wrote:

the fact is that cd audio far surpasses vinyl. this can be proven
mathematically.


where has that been proved. ?


nyquist-shannon

CD sales dropping vinyl sales increasing currently but I don;t think that
proves which is best for what purpose.


vinyl sales are a tiny fraction of the industry, even with whatever
increase there might have been.

you can always downgrade cd to sound like vinyl but you can't ever make
a vinyl record sound as good as a cd. it's *impossible*.


CD have already been downgraded from the original 24 bit recording
that the better studios use.


nonsense. cds have never been downgraded.

you have no idea what you're talking about, as usual.
  #26  
Old July 28th 15, 10:45 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
charles
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Posts: 88
Default DSLR sales. Only two ways they can go

On Mon, 27 Jul 2015 06:00:22 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

There are two weak points in most systems. The first is the cartridge
and associated bits and pieces. The second is most definitely the
speakers. Amplifiers are reasonably easy to do.


cds eliminates the first one.

the rest you can't eliminate. it's a bit hard to listen to music if you
don't have speakers or an amplifier.



It can be done. A cactus needle held in the teeth and held agains the
vynil record will work. Not vey practical, but in an emergency,
whatever works.
  #27  
Old July 29th 15, 12:07 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Eric Stevens
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Posts: 13,611
Default DSLR sales. Only two ways they can go

On Tue, 28 Jul 2015 17:38:32 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article ,
Whisky-dave wrote:

the fact is that cd audio far surpasses vinyl. this can be proven
mathematically.


where has that been proved. ?


nyquist-shannon

CD sales dropping vinyl sales increasing currently but I don;t think that
proves which is best for what purpose.


vinyl sales are a tiny fraction of the industry, even with whatever
increase there might have been.

you can always downgrade cd to sound like vinyl but you can't ever make
a vinyl record sound as good as a cd. it's *impossible*.


CD have already been downgraded from the original 24 bit recording
that the better studios use.


nonsense. cds have never been downgraded.


All kinds of things are done to the recorded music before it makes its
way on to the final CD version. To say the music is not downgraded in
the process is nonsense.

you have no idea what you're talking about, as usual.

--

Regards,

Eric Stevens
  #28  
Old July 29th 15, 03:40 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24,165
Default DSLR sales. Only two ways they can go

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

you can always downgrade cd to sound like vinyl but you can't ever make
a vinyl record sound as good as a cd. it's *impossible*.

CD have already been downgraded from the original 24 bit recording
that the better studios use.


nonsense. cds have never been downgraded.


All kinds of things are done to the recorded music before it makes its
way on to the final CD version. To say the music is not downgraded in
the process is nonsense.


what's been done prior to producing a cd is irrelevant.

cds have *not* been downgraded nor have they been upgraded. they are
red book compliant and have been all along.

and even if something did change, it doesn't matter. the fact remains
that a cd can contain *everything* a vinyl record contains plus a *lot*
more.

for those who like the 'warmth' (i.e., distortion) of vinyl, then they
can add that back digitally.
  #29  
Old July 29th 15, 02:18 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
MB[_4_]
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Posts: 22
Default DSLR sales. Only two ways they can go

On 27/07/2015 10:58, Eric Stevens wrote:
On Sun, 26 Jul 2015 23:31:28 -0700, Bill
wrote:

On Mon, 27 Jul 2015 00:56:07 -0400,
wrote:

In , Bill W
wrote:

If this sounds alarmist, check out CD or vinyl sales from
their highest sales year till now. The drop in sales isn't
some minor economic blip, it's an evolution of the market.

Not such a great analogy. Cameras are used as tools with a purpose,
and some purposes require greater quality than others. CD's have one
purpose, listening to music. Another problem is that lots of folks -
maybe most - clearly don't care at all about sound quality. Some of
the codecs & specs that are used are simply not very good. Oddly
enough, vinyl is having its own upward blip, because some people think
it sounds better. I think that's a good development, even if those
people are crazy...

they're hipsters who think it's cool.

They also think hiss = warmth. Part of the problem, or maybe the whole
problem, became crystal clear to me many years ago. I bought a Mobile
Fidelity Sound Labs album, and the sound was amazing. That was before
CD's came out, and when the CD of that album came out, I couldn't wait
to listen to it. I assumed it would be beyond belief. Well, it sucked.
Flat, lifeless, everything you always hear from the vinyl nuts. But it
was representative of the overall problem. It was simply badly done.
Very badly done. It really was hit or miss back then.




That argument is reminiscent of wine, I remember some years ago someone
saying there are now plenty of countries with perfect climates that can
produce perfect wine year after year but the Frogs claim their wine is
better because of unpredictable weather which means the quality of their
wine varies from year to year i.e. some years are worse than others.

Though I thought 'warmth' of sound usually means that there is a poor
frequency response on high frequencies.


  #30  
Old July 29th 15, 04:25 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24,165
Default DSLR sales. Only two ways they can go

In article ,
Whisky-dave wrote:


what's been done prior to producing a cd is irrelevant.


No it isn't.
What they do is chop the original sound up into many pieces and then
reconstruct it.


so what?

the reconstruction is indistinguishable from the original. again, this
is something that can be proven.

cds have *not* been downgraded nor have they been upgraded. they are
red book compliant and have been all along.


So what, what has that tom do with it.
To be red book complient means you can have 79mins play time rather than 74.
It has NOTHING what so ever to do the quality of recording !


it has everything to do with the quality.

red book cds are 16 bit, 44.1khz sampling, which *defines* the dynamic
range and highest frequency that can be reproduced which is more than
the human ear can hear.

Try talking about this with someone that worls in teh business on in a recording studio.


what for? they don't know much about sampling theory and likely believe
the same rubbish you do.

try talking about it with electrical engineers who understand the math.
 




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