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Color Printing Hassles?



 
 
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  #11  
Old February 2nd 04, 12:04 AM
John
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Default Thanks All (was: Color Printing Hassles)?

On Sun, 1 Feb 2004 14:49:30 -0500, "?" ?@???.??? wrote:

My only complaint about getting older is that you start to realize there
simply is not enough time left to become competent in all the things that
grab your interest; and that you really do have to choose where you spend
your time.


On the other hand you are already accomplished at so many
things.


Regards,

John S. Douglas, Photographer - http://www.darkroompro.com
Please remove the "_" when replying via email
  #12  
Old February 2nd 04, 12:51 AM
John
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Default Thanks All (was: Color Printing Hassles)?

On Sun, 1 Feb 2004 14:49:30 -0500, "?" ?@???.??? wrote:

I am not sure I even see me getting much more than an "entry" level color
enlarger (other than making sure it has 3 color wheels and is rigid).


As most on this group are aware, I'm not very keen on entry
level anything. Here are my recommendations for a decent color
enlarger.

Durst - M305 , M605 , 805 , L1000 , L1200

Omega - D5 , 670MXL , C76

Saunders - D6700

Most of the Rollei, Nikkor , Minolta , ESECO and some Phillips
and Vivtar equipment is actually quite good. Just make sure that you
get a complete package as negative carriers and lensboards are
sometimes hard to find.


Regards,

John S. Douglas, Photographer - http://www.darkroompro.com
Please remove the "_" when replying via email
  #14  
Old February 2nd 04, 01:46 AM
John
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Default Color Printing Hassles?

On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 21:25:26 GMT, "Norman Worth"
wrote:

The biggest hassle is making your first good print - getting the filtration
and exposure correct for a typical negative. That drives eveyone up the
wall. Once the primary exposure and filtration for you film, paper, and
processing conditions is determined, other negatives will differ only
sightly, if at all.


I can't entirely agree. Oh the first prints can certainly be a
challenge but for me the biggest challenge was in the minute changes
from batch to batch in the films, paper and the processing. If one is
starting a project which needs color consistency throughout then I
suggest making the first 5 prints and allowing them to dry and be
viewed outside the darkroom prior to continuing the project. Nothing
like printing out 40~80 prints and finding that they are needed -5cc
magenta. Experience. A really nasty teacher.

Regards,

John S. Douglas, Photographer - http://www.darkroompro.com
Please remove the "_" when replying via email
  #15  
Old February 2nd 04, 01:53 AM
John
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Default Color Printing Hassles?

On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 17:50:45 -0500, David Starr
wrote:

That's the amazing part for me. In my RC-37 & 74 days, color balance
changed depending on lighting source and from roll to roll. In the
past 2 weeks, heres what i printed and the filtration I used.......


One point worth addressing is the need for stable electricity.
When I ran a mini-lab, we had to recalibrate the printer throughout
the course of the day to allow for voltage drifts. It never got so bad
that it was obvious but then we didn't let it.

Regards,

John S. Douglas, Photographer - http://www.darkroompro.com
Please remove the "_" when replying via email
  #16  
Old February 2nd 04, 12:20 PM
?
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Default Color Printing Hassles?

John said

"Experience. A really nasty teacher."

I can't agree more. But it is the most effective.

My daughter was selling some of her stuff at a flea market and a guy came
along that was known to most of us. He bought something that they had
agreed was worth $14. I watched him carefully as he cheated her out of a
couple dollars as another customer took her attention.

After that second customer left, I asked her how much she got for the
necklace; she said $14. I told her to count her cash: $12. I then
explained to her what had happened. She looked at me with amazed anger (the
kind of look that usually takes a couple years of marriage for a woman to
master) and asked why I had not told her.

My response: "Because you would have learned nothing".


--
Regards,
Dewey Clark http://www.historictimekeepers.com
Ebay Sales:
http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAP...ems&userid=dsc
Restorations, Parts for Hamilton M21s, Products for Craftsmen
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"John" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 21:25:26 GMT, "Norman Worth"
wrote:

The biggest hassle is making your first good print - getting the

filtration
and exposure correct for a typical negative. That drives eveyone up the
wall. Once the primary exposure and filtration for you film, paper, and
processing conditions is determined, other negatives will differ only
sightly, if at all.


I can't entirely agree. Oh the first prints can certainly be a
challenge but for me the biggest challenge was in the minute changes
from batch to batch in the films, paper and the processing. If one is
starting a project which needs color consistency throughout then I
suggest making the first 5 prints and allowing them to dry and be
viewed outside the darkroom prior to continuing the project. Nothing
like printing out 40~80 prints and finding that they are needed -5cc
magenta. Experience. A really nasty teacher.

Regards,

John S. Douglas, Photographer - http://www.darkroompro.com
Please remove the "_" when replying via email



  #17  
Old February 2nd 04, 12:32 PM
?
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Posts: n/a
Default Thanks All (was: Color Printing Hassles)?

John,

I agree with you. I tell people who want to improve/learn watchmaking as a
vocation that should buy only the best and most complete stuff.

I have the little Omega B22 which serves me well. I refer to it as *entry
level* only because it is about as basic as you can get. Not even a
distance scale (I super glued a key chain sized measuring tape to one of the
condenser brackets). Still, I don't think I could ever part with it. It
was from the days when manufacturer's said, "Ok, this should work; but,
let's make it a little more solid just to be sure" That extruded center
column is overkill by today's standards and the counterbalance system and
focus system still do their jobs. I guess I develop emotional attachments
to equipment that serves me well.

I will certainly have saved your recommendations for color enlargers. Your
list removes the guess work out for me. Thanks.

--
Regards,
Dewey Clark http://www.historictimekeepers.com
Ebay Sales:
http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAP...ems&userid=dsc
Restorations, Parts for Hamilton M21s, Products for Craftsmen
Makers of Historic Timekeepers Ultrasonic Clock Cleaning Solution

"John" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 1 Feb 2004 14:49:30 -0500, "?" ?@???.??? wrote:

I am not sure I even see me getting much more than an "entry" level color
enlarger (other than making sure it has 3 color wheels and is rigid).


As most on this group are aware, I'm not very keen on entry
level anything. Here are my recommendations for a decent color
enlarger.

Durst - M305 , M605 , 805 , L1000 , L1200

Omega - D5 , 670MXL , C76

Saunders - D6700

Most of the Rollei, Nikkor , Minolta , ESECO and some Phillips
and Vivtar equipment is actually quite good. Just make sure that you
get a complete package as negative carriers and lensboards are
sometimes hard to find.


Regards,

John S. Douglas, Photographer - http://www.darkroompro.com
Please remove the "_" when replying via email


  #18  
Old February 3rd 04, 05:11 AM
Victor Falkteg
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Posts: n/a
Default Color Printing Hassles?

There are NO hassles.

But do it right. Do NOT try these tubes, they gives you a lot of hassles.
Do not try to make 36 small prints from a 36 roll, let the lab do it.
Do NOT use a color analyser - use a exposure meter like in black and white.
I have a color analyser but use it only as an ordinary exposure meter.
Analysers are good for mass production with integrated meassurements and NOT
topp quality.

If you want no hassles, use just one kind of film or a films that are
identical from the point of printing ( for example the Kodak Portra films ).
So, get you a good enlarger with a color head.
An exposure meter and timer.
For developing I suggest a vertical slot tank like the Nova
(www.novadarkroom.com) with heating. You can get one for $100 - $200 at
eBay.

And, I forgot, do NOT use the low temperature kits that are on the market.
Use Kodak chemicals at the recomended temperature (most versions needs 35
degrees centigrade). The chemicals can be in the Nova tank for months (there
are special lids). You do not have to use new chemiclas, just regenerate.
You save mony and can always make prints with one hour delay (for heating of
the chemicals)

Start with making a perfect neutral grey copy from a NOT exposed film frame.
At the same time you calibrate the exposure measurement for a very light but
not white spot (as black and white work). On my Omega ProLab II Chromega
head this means 000-069-058 (but changing the bulb means you need some
adjustment of the filtration). A differnt paper batch can sometimes give
soem changies in the filteration. Sometimes.
This filtration will be ok for most prints as long as the light balance was
ok when you took the picture. Use correction filters when shooting, it gives
better results then filtering in the dark room.

I have this process running since a few years and it's consistent. I make 95
percent of the prints with the same filtration and the whites and greys are
perfectly white or gray. I mostly make 30 x 40 cm prints and all on the same
paper (Kodak Ultra Endura).

The cost for one 30 x 40 cm print (chemicals and paper) is average about
$2.00 - $3.00.
The quality is as professional labs manual prints or better. The time needed
is as usual black and white in the enlarger and 90 seconds for developing
and bleechfix. 1 - 3 minutes intense washing is enough. Drying takes 5
minutes or so if you use a hot air.

But please remember, the key to success is to use the same film, the same
chemicals, the same paper and regenerate the chemicals right all the time.
Are you the kind of person that likes to experiment with every possible film
on the market, then you are looking for hassles.

Feel fre to ask if you need more information about how to do it.

Regards

Victor




"?" ?@???.??? wrote in message ...
Aside from equipment (color head, analyzer, processing kit), what are the
procedural hassles of printing in color? I likely would let the labs
continue to process my film and print me an index sheet (about $4 per 36
roll of print film)

I know total darkens is required and in my case an analyzer is likely

needed
to get my filtration correct. But that is about as much as I think I

know.

Right now, I use a Kodak Exposure sheet to get exposure from one or two
prints on a roll. Then it is generally only processing time for my test
prints. My darkroom (a converted bathroom) is a comfortable size for B&W

up
to 11X14 and I suspect adding color will make it less comfortable.

I have read it can take upwards of an hour to get a color print.

For most color shots, Ritz is good and the price ($8) seems fair.

However,
if I have something that the machine can't do automatically, then I go to
the "real" lab in town (Baltimore) and the cost can hit $25. The staff
there are very good at interpreting what I want; but the cost at both

places
makes me very judicious (I agree this is a good thing). But, like most

who
take photography half way seriously, I am a control freak and have some
(hopefully after getting more info, none) desire to do my own color
enlargements.

Thanks for your thoughts.

--
Regards,
Dewey Clark http://www.historictimekeepers.com
Ebay Sales:
http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAP...ems&userid=dsc
Restorations, Parts for Hamilton M21s, Products for Craftsmen
Makers of Historic Timekeepers Ultrasonic Clock Cleaning Solution




 




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