Apple camera coming?

In article , Dudley
Hanks wrote:

When I posted the comment that started this whole thread offshoot, Iwas
simply venting a bit of my frustration with apple, a hatred I've developed
over many years, due to many bad experiences. If you think that comment
truly expressed the depth of my disdain for apple, you should talk to my
kids, they'll chuckle and tell you a few stories about why I "see red"
whenever conversation turns to apple...

you finally admit your apple hatred.

Still, I'm always up for a challenge, and I've started toying with the idea
of taking my laptop and ICDSX 712b down to an apple store and see if I can
get one of the reps to help me with a serious comparison, one I might post
as a podcast that could be of use to others.

please do. it will be very interesting to see how that works out.

If it opens my mind, so much the better, but I'm not holding my breath.
I've been down this road many, many, many times before. I just haven't
documented the journey all that well...

somehow, i don't think it will, but i'm willing to give you the benefit
of the doubt if you go in with an open mind and leave your ridiculous
ideas about macs at home.

On 8/26/2012 3:59 PM, Dudley Hanks wrote:
"PeterN" wrote in message
...
On 8/26/2012 3:11 PM, Dudley Hanks wrote:

snip
Even Windows Narrator can read buttons, menus, basic text in basic
editors.

If I see a video of nospam editing a pic on a mac using Adobe while blind
folded, relying on mac access technology, I'll be convinced and
immediately
go out and purchase a mac.

Is your vision good enough to see videos?

--
Peter

Sorry, Peter, the old phraseology dies hard ...

I still say things like "I'm watching television," "I'll see you later,"
"I'm looking for that widget I lost," and "I'll believe it when I see it,"
even though sight no longer plays much of a role...

Sometimes, it's awkward, sometimes it's just plain funny.

G


The point is that nospam would have to post a video of himself editing a pic
while blindfolded and using speech. That way, other sighted members of the
group and sighted persons I personally know could verify the act. It'd be
too easy to fake an audio recording, don't you think?

Here's an additional wrinkle to the challenge:

After nospam posts his video, maybe I'll feel inspired and go down to an
apple store and get a sales rep to walk me through one of their top
offerings. And, maybe I'll take along my laptop as a baseline comparison,
assuming the apple guys are up for the challenge.

It might be interesting having a side-by-side comparison of the two systems,
and a demo of the sales rep's "ability" to deal with a customer with a
"disability."


I've been in an Apple store twice in the last month. Both times I
thought the sales people were both knowledgeable and customer oriented.
There is usually a wait for service, but they gave me all the time I
needed. They gave other customers far more time than they needed. It
might be worth a shot for you.

In article , Wolfgang
Weisselberg wrote:

there are over a billion phones. just how many batteries do you think
get sold?

Over a billion. Ever seen a mobile phone without one?

that's the included battery, not a second spare battery. try to keep up.

"Wolfgang Weisselberg" wrote in message
...
Dudley Hanks wrote:

For instance, give me a Sony MP3 player, anyday, over an IPod. The sound
is
vastly better, and I can set the menu items independently (after a brief
session or two with a sighted helper).

Well, Rockbox (available for different hardware, including some
from Apple) can speak menus and so on and (with a little help)
song titles and folders ...
http://www.rockbox.org


-Wolfgang

Thanks, Wolfgang, that looks like its worth a second glance.

I think the kids have some old IPods kicking around they're no longer using.
I might see if there is one of the listed models in the pile and try it out.

Take Care,
Dudley

On 8/26/2012 5:05 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , PeterN
wrote:

I haven't owned an apple product since my old IIgs, and I don't see any
purchases from there blind-unfriendly product line, any time soon.

say what???????

apple products are *very* blind friendly, one the most blind friendly
of any computing platform.

for visually impaired, macs have voice over which can read the titles
of buttons, controls and windows, as well as the contents in a window
or whatever is under the cursor. the synthesized voice is extremely
high quality, not a robotic sounding voice that's difficult to
understand. macs also support over 40 braille displays.

the cursor size can also be increased to really huge sizes. the display
contrast can be increased and/or it can be set to reverse video. one
can zoom into any portion of the display and pan around.

for hearing impaired, a mac will flash the screen instead of make
sounds and for those with limited hand mobility, they can control the
mouse with the keyboard as well as use sticky keys so two handed
operations can be done with one hand.

ios devices have similar assistive technologies, including reading
buttons and controls as well as what is under your finger as you touch
various parts of the display. zooming is also supported, as is larger
default text sizes.

it's probably the *best* choice for visually impaired people.

You seem to be blind to the fact that Dragon speech to text is one of
the most accurate. I have worked with both the Dragon product and the
Mac product, and there is no comparison. While there are a lot of speech
to text products on the market, most are based upon the Dragon, or
Phillips models. Dragon can trace its roots to IBM. But enough. You are
simply not correct in your assertion.

you seem to be blind to the fact that i didn't mention speech to text
anywhere in that post.

So you don't consider a good speech to text program an important
accessibility aid?



nevertheless, if you want to use dragon on a mac, all you need to do is
buy a copy, just as you would for a windows box. they offer it for both
platforms, and it's not built-in on either one.


Dragon for Mac is DragonDictate, not Dragon Naturally Speaking. Dragon
Dictate uses a discrete speech engine. but, why am I wasting my time
explaining this to you. You already know everything there is to know.
I do admit that I last met with a Dragon product manager about two years
ago. Have you had a more recent meeting?

--
Peter

On 8/26/2012 5:05 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , Dudley
Hanks wrote:

i'm not pushing anything. all i'm doing is refuting your bizarre and
ludicrous claims about macs that are based on having used an apple ii
25 years ago.

the reality is that you have *no* idea what macs can or cannot do and
you have *no* idea what you're talking about when you comment on them.

As noted in past messages, I've tried many macs at a number of different
centers. In fact, I used to work in one of those centers doing assessments,
going so far as to advise the Alberta government it needed to adopt more
objective assessments when individuals applied for equipment funding.

how long ago? which macs? which systems were they running? what
software did you use? did you encounter any problems? if so, what were
they and what kind of help did you get in resolving them?

specifics please.

just saying you used macs a few times means nothing.

i've asked you a couple of times already which macs and you keep
dancing around the answer. i can only conclude that they were *not*
current models like you said they were.

I also worked at the Alberta Vocational College (now Norquest Community
College), teaching disabled persons who to use their adapted equipment.

If that's not enough experience for you, sorry, it's the best I can do.

Given my work history / personal history, I have a keen interest in the area
of accessability technology and do my best to keep up with developments in
the area.

Perhaps, you might detail your credentials in this area?

already detailed in another post.

I've told you that, in my opinion, the accessability tools on macs are
useless. I'm entitled to my opinion.

and i've told you that your opinion is based on misinformation, not
having used recent macs and a very intense hatred of apple.

even if macs blew away the competition by leaps and bounds, you'd still
find fault and pick another product.

If your opinion is different, and if you have some experience to base your
opinion on, fine. Please detail.

You are the one who is not disabled, has no experience with disability
related technologies, and who is telling a disabled person with 20 years
worth of life, corporate and educational experience that he doesn't know
what he's talking about.

i'm the one with 25 years of using and developing software for macs,
including assistive technologies and having written software to take
full advantage of it.

If that turns your crank, great. It just seems to me you could find a more
useful way to spend your time.

says the person who goes out of his way to hate all things apple.

if you don't want a mac, that's fine. nobody gives a ****.

where i draw the line is when someone makes bogus claims.

Perhaps you're a mac employee paid to ridicule any criticism of the
company's equipment? That is the only way I can make sense of your interest
in trying to persuade me to defend my personal position adopted after many
years of computer use.

there is no company called 'mac' so i can't be a 'mac employee' nor can
anyone else.

just another example in a long list of ignorant statements.

I don't use a Mac regularly but I think one must admit to admiration of
the design and apparent sharpness of the monitors. I haven't seen a MS
store yet but they've got to be envious of the crowds at Apple stores.
Generally, I use a PC (W7) and sometimes Linux. I wish I'd had the nerve
to buy Apple when Jobs came back!

--
Jim Silverton (Potomac, MD)

Extraneous "not" in Reply To.

On 8/26/2012 5:05 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , PeterN
wrote:

Funny how he talks about "most people" when the issue is "most serious
photographers/"

the issue is not most serious photographers.

the mythical apple camera is virtually guaranteed to *not* be for
serious photo enthusiasts. it's going to be a mass market item like
almost everything else apple makes. that means the facebook and
instagram crowd.

Mythical, being the operative word!

yep. an apple camera is just a rumour at this point and one which
doesn't have much traction, at least not yet.

maybe they have a prototype internally, but whether they release it or
not is unknown. they don't release a lot of stuff they make.

serious photographers will get a serious camera, i.e., slr, high end
prosumer compact, etc.

I guess you have inside knowledge.
And are ignoring that the context of this group is, at lest is theory,
serious photography.

that just means that few people on this newsgroup will buy one. it says
nothing about the success or failure of such a product.

once again, it's very unlikely apple is going to target the photo
enthusiast or pro photographer. they're after the facebook and
instagram crowd.

the people on this newsgroup are not representative of the camera
buying public.

So why waste bandwidth talking about something that, according to you is:
probably not going to be released; and/or
of little or no interest to this group.

--
Peter

On 8/26/2012 5:05 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , PeterN
wrote:

Then regarding the other capabilities of Macs, I hate to say this, but
here you seem to have been drawn into the Windows anti-Apple FUD. There
are reasons Macs are as successful as they are, and top of that list is
exceptional performance in graphics.

Which is why serious graphic designers who use Macs don't use the Apple
monitor. Its high gloss screen makes corrections in the shadow areas,
more difficult than with an NEC, LaCie or Eizo.

'the' apple monitor??

apple has made many different displays, most of which were *not*
glossy, however, the current one is glossy. if that bothers you, buy
something else.

Which current 27" models are not glossy?


and i'm sure you realize, not everyone is a serious graphic designer
and not everyone hates glossy. unfortunately, glossy is very popular.
that's just how it is.


But didn't you say "top of that list is exceptional performance in
graphics? "

am beginning to suspect that consistency of position is not your forte.

--
Peter

Given my work history / personal history, I have a keen interest in the
area
of accessability technology and do my best to keep up with developments
in
the area.

Perhaps, you might detail your credentials in this area?

already detailed in another post.


Sorry, my memory isn't what it used to be. Perhaps you can refresh my
memory and state your creds again?


I've told you that, in my opinion, the accessability tools on macs are
useless. I'm entitled to my opinion.

and i've told you that your opinion is based on misinformation, not
having used recent macs and a very intense hatred of apple.

even if macs blew away the competition by leaps and bounds, you'd still
find fault and pick another product.

If your opinion is different, and if you have some experience to base
your
opinion on, fine. Please detail.

You are the one who is not disabled, has no experience with disability
related technologies, and who is telling a disabled person with 20 years
worth of life, corporate and educational experience that he doesn't know
what he's talking about.

i'm the one with 25 years of using and developing software for macs,
including assistive technologies and having written software to take
full advantage of it.

Perhaps, you can email me your real name so I can call you at work and offer
you some input, one-to-one? You know my email address.


If that turns your crank, great. It just seems to me you could find a
more
useful way to spend your time.

says the person who goes out of his way to hate all things apple.

I don't go out of my way. It just happens...

At least apple isn't paying my way, so I can be objective ...

if you don't want a mac, that's fine. nobody gives a ****.

where i draw the line is when someone makes bogus claims.


Bogus?

A sighted engineer with a wounded ego because his product line doesn't work
is more apt to make bogus claims than a blind user who finds a competitors
products MUCH more to his liking ...

Perhaps you're a mac employee paid to ridicule any criticism of the
company's equipment? That is the only way I can make sense of your
interest
in trying to persuade me to defend my personal position adopted after
many
years of computer use.

there is no company called 'mac' so i can't be a 'mac employee' nor can
anyone else.

Ah, but mac is put out by apple, which apparently pays your way, so, it all
makes perfect sense...


just another example in a long list of ignorant statements.

Discounting criticism out of a wounded ego instead of taking concrete action
to address real or perceived deficiencies has proceeded the downfall of
many, many, many narrow-minded corporate types, and the labours of their
love...

BTW, looking forward to "seeing" a video of you, blindfolded, using the mac
screen reader to read one of the flash books on
http://mysafaribooksonline.com

If you like, I can suggest a few titles ...

Take Care,
Dudley

"nospam" wrote in message
...
In article , Dudley
Hanks wrote:

based on your posts, you haven't used any of them and keep making more
and more ludicrous comments based on propaganda you may have heard.

Of course I haven't used 'em, they're not accessable.

they're very accessible.

The problem is sighted people just don't seem to understand that adding
speech to a touch screen doesn't necessarily make the system usable by a
blind person.

if you think all apple did was add speech to a touch screen and call it
a day, then you are even more misinformed than i originally thought.

Here's something for you to do in your spare time.

Turn off all the speech on whatever apple products you might have at
hand,
if any. Then, try to turn it on, blindfolded. Please video yourself and
post the results on Utube. I'm interested in how you do.

let's see you do that on windows.

It's a deal...

If I can do it on Windows, you'll do it for an IPod? Or, an IPad?

How about if I turn the speech off of my Windows machine, load a couple of
progs, maybe write a brief message and email it to a friend, and then turn
the speech back on, all while the laptop is sitting behind me, with the
screen facing the other way?

Come on, turn the speech on a Windows machine without sight! Give me a real
challenge ...

Take Care,
Dudley