SIDE BY SIDE - D70 vs Rebel XT/350D

John A. Stovall wrote:

On Sun, 06 Mar 2005 23:30:16 GMT, "ian lincoln"
wrote:


snipped

considering the main selling point of the canon is its 8mp sensor putting an
inferior lens on the front seems pointless.


Why bother buying one with a kit lens? In putting together my Canon
20D system. I just bought the body and then added the lens(es) I
wanted which would meet my needs.

I don't understand why any one wouldn't just buy a body and not get
the best lenses for their needs rather than what the manufacturer put
on it.

I would go as far as to say anyone buying a 20D and not knowing enough
to pick a lenses doesn't need to be buying one but rather needs to be
learning more about the basics of photography.

That depends a lot on the person. Some just want the latest and best
gadget and really don't care about photography, and really couldn't care
less about what lens they have as long as it does their job as they
perceive it. The manufacturers put wide to moderate zoom lenses because
these are appropriate to people who are more snapper than shooter. The
days of "ye shall spend 1 year with a 50mm lens" are a bit in the past.

Cheers,
Alan


--
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-- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
-- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
-- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.

DoN. Nichols wrote:

In article , adm wrote:

"Steven M. Scharf" wrote in message
hlink.net...


[ ... ]


The lack of mirror lock-up is just decontenting. They do lock up the
mirror for sensor cleaning, so the capability is there.

True. I'm surprised that there doesn't seem to be a firmware hack for this
though...


Well ... remember that when sensor cleaning, they recommend
operating it from the AC power adaptor, which suggests that holding the
mirror up drains the battery rather quickly. This seems to me to be
adequate reason to not put it in the firmware -- either as an original
feature, or as an aftermarket "hack".

The reason for the AC is to make the chance of a power failure (battery)
remote, resulting in the shutter closing and mirror falling onto the
brush or blower, or swab. The shutter, in particular, is usually
delicate and closes very fast.



I suspect that the mirror is being held up by battery power full
time while it is up, and that to provide a reasonable mirror lock-up
feature, they would need to add hardware -- one solenoid to lift the
mirror (and let it latch), and another to release it once it is time to
do so.

Most electric MLU's draw current during MLU. It's no big deal.
Consider a 30 second or 5 minute exposure... a few seconds of MLU is
nothing. The EOS-1v is one SLR that does have a mechanical mirror latch
for both MLU and long exposures.


At that time, they could also add a mirror up, delay, expose,
and mirror release features for extreme telephoto or for
astro-photography.

Minolta's MLU solution is a 2 second delay. Depress shutter, mirror-up,
wait 2 sec. begin exposure. I've been using this regualarly for 5 years
and my batteries usually last 4-5 months at a rate of 100 rolls per year
(Maxxum 9). This is also a feature of the Maxxum 7D.

Cheers,
Alan.


--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
-- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
-- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.

Larry wrote:

In article , says...

No, they're getting what they want. A dSLR with great performance for
under $1,000. The lens might not be perfect, but most entry level
buyers aren't going to splurge for a more expensive lens until much,
much later.

Exactly.
Too many people always compare against the best and forget about the
price. You get what you pay for. And you want to spent 1000$ on a
camera, you don't want to know which one is the best. You want to know
which one is the best for 1000$.
I know that my 300D is not as good as the 20D. In the same way as my
Honda is not as good as a BMW. But it is one of the best for the price.
And the 300D kit was definitively the best digital camera for the price
when I bought it. The D70 kit was better...it was 1.5 times more
expensive as well.




I did the same kind of math when I bought my last new camera. (a Sony F-828)
It was either the Sony or a DRebel, and the Sony seemed (and has been) MUCH
more rugged.

I dont get good pictures at ISO 800 (not even usable) and I have to be
carefull about backlighting (pf), but the Sony has taken some whacks for the
horses that the Canon might not have survived. It took one knock severe
enough to straighten the little triangular fastener at the end of the neck-
strap, and dump it to the ground (thank God the lens cover was on). It went
face first into the dirt!

I picked it up and dusted it off with a soft paintbrush I use to clean things
(sable hair) It didn't get broken.

I went out today and farted around at the camera store... Played with a D70,
a Digital Rebel, and several other cameras, including the EVolt.

I hate to say it but the one that felt "Tough Enough" in my hands was the
D70... Go Figure.

With any luck, I'll have one soon. I was seriously considering the New DRebel
or the '20.

The '20 plus a lens would be too much money for me this spring, but the D70
with the kit lens will probably do the job, at least through the spring, as
long as I keep it away from the horses.

This year there will be less "in the ring" shooting and more posed stuff, now
that I have all my lights and a backdrop ready to go.

I know I ramble on a bit, but the point is, I KNOW the Canon '20 is a better
camera, but we all have to deal with the money problem (we gotta PAY for
stuff). With all the money I have spent on backdrops, lights, reflectors
ect. the D70 is what I can afford without going into debt. Perhaps the D70
will earn me enough to pay for a '20 (or whatever Canon comes up with next).
Then I can retire to the peacefull life of a 'round the house camera. Or put
a BIG lens on it and use it for nature shots.



I use a small Canon A60 when I don't want to bring my DRebel (hiking,
biking, skiing). It makes great 4x6 for a 2MP P&S camera.
When I looked at D70, it gave a rougher impression. I don't remember
exactly what it was, but there was something really cheap about it, the
battery or memory card maybe. Something that didn't fit in on a camera
in that price range.

In article , says...

I use a small Canon A60 when I don't want to bring my DRebel (hiking,
biking, skiing). It makes great 4x6 for a 2MP P&S camera.
When I looked at D70, it gave a rougher impression. I don't remember
exactly what it was, but there was something really cheap about it, the
battery or memory card maybe. Something that didn't fit in on a camera
in that price range.


Perhaps its just a different way of "looking".

When I judge a camera, a lot of it is done without my eyes, its done with the
fingertips and hands.

Did the D70 LOOK more rugged?? NO!, but when in my hands it felt more
substantial, (heavier maybe? I didnt look at the weight) It FELT less
breakable when using controls without looking.

As for battery cover, card slots, little doors ect. Ive come to EXPECT
problems in those areas on all cameras, and I dont fuss with them when Im
distracted.

It is at least 90% subjective on my part, I just thought the D70 felt more
rugged than the DRebel (the 300 not the 350 which I have not handled).


--
Larry Lynch
Mystic, Ct.

"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...

Well ... remember that when sensor cleaning, they recommend
operating it from the AC power adaptor, which suggests that holding the
mirror up drains the battery rather quickly.

They are simply concerned that someone might attempt sensor cleaning with an
almost-exhausted battery, and the camera will turn off, and the mirror will
crash down on a brush.

"David J. Littleboy" wrote in message
...

The D70 and EOS-350D are hands down the best choices in the amateur
market, and most people would be happy with either of them, despite the
minor shortcomings of each.

Yep. Although we haven't seen the Dpreview 350D review yet: we're assuming
it acts like the 20D.

What about moire? I've seen moire mentioned on the D70 in every review.

"Steven M. Scharf" wrote in message
ink.net...

"David J. Littleboy" wrote in message
...

The D70 and EOS-350D are hands down the best choices in the amateur
market, and most people would be happy with either of them, despite
the
minor shortcomings of each.

Yep. Although we haven't seen the Dpreview 350D review yet: we're
assuming
it acts like the 20D.

What about moire? I've seen moire mentioned on the D70 in every review.

That's true, but my 300D does Moire, and I've seen Moire in 20D samples, so
it's something you're going to see whatever camera.

I'd like to say that Canon kills Nikon/Pentax/Minolta, but in real life,
it's not as true as we Canonophiles would like to think. Also, don't forget
that Sony has a 12MP sensor that will drop into the Nikon/Pentax/Minolta low
and midrange bodies...

David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan

On Mon, 07 Mar 2005 23:09:12 GMT, Jan Böhme
, wrote in
:

On Sun, 06 Mar 2005 14:29:55 GMT, "ian lincoln"
wrote:


"Clyde Torres" wrote in message
.com...
"Alice" wrote in message ...
http://www.digitalreview.ca/cams/Nik...sRebelXT.shtml

I'm not sure this review puts to bed anything. The Nikon/Canon
zealots will read what they want out of it and come up with
different conclusions.

I for one have both a D70 and 20D. They are far superior cameras to
the original Digital Rebel, and from what I can see, the D70 is
still superior to the 350D DRXT. Oh,well, to each her own.


Reading the first page the feature set has the slight edge for nikon
in terms of shear number of advantages over the other.

Yes. Although one of the Nikon advantages is duplicated in their list
(the metering) and two arguably insignificant advantages for Nikon are
included (the 1.5 crop factor is touted as a "larger sensor" in
comparison to the crop factor of 1,6 with the 350D, and the startup
time of 0,02 seconds is given as faster then the 0,2 sec of EOS 350D,
when both times are faster than itnormally would take to raise the
camera to one's eyes) I didn't find a correspondingly irrelevant or
insignificant advantage listed on the Canon side. (Well, I suppose
that one could argue that the colour choice options for the 350D body
are irrelevant and insignficant as far as actual photography goes.)

Furthermore, one Nikon advantage is with "optional" software, which I
suppose means that you don't get unless you pay extra money not
accounted for in the price comparison. And the warranty advantage
would seem to be Canada-specific, too.

So, instead of 23-16 in favour of Nikon, it is more of 19-15 in Canada
and 18-15 outside of it. Still an edge in numbers, but not quite as
impressive anymore.

Two more non-advantage points: the D70 has a penta-Dach-mirror
viewfinder, not a pentaprism; the D70's flash sync speed of 1/500s at
ISO200 vs 350D's 1/200s at ISO100 is just 1/3 stop different, not as
much an advantage that 1/500s vs 1/200s makes it out to be. That makes
it 16-15 for D70.

Admitedly, the D70 has slightly better ergonomics and operational
performance, but the more important aspects, IMO, of higher resolution
and (presumably) lower noise quality of the 350D will outweigh the D70
as the better camera.


--
T.N.T.

Lbh xabj jung gb qb vs lbh rire jnag gb rznvy zr.

Larry wrote:
In article , says...

I use a small Canon A60 when I don't want to bring my DRebel (hiking,
biking, skiing). It makes great 4x6 for a 2MP P&S camera.
When I looked at D70, it gave a rougher impression. I don't remember
exactly what it was, but there was something really cheap about it, the
battery or memory card maybe. Something that didn't fit in on a camera
in that price range.



Perhaps its just a different way of "looking".

When I judge a camera, a lot of it is done without my eyes, its done with the
fingertips and hands.

Did the D70 LOOK more rugged?? NO!, but when in my hands it felt more
substantial, (heavier maybe? I didnt look at the weight) It FELT less
breakable when using controls without looking.

As for battery cover, card slots, little doors ect. Ive come to EXPECT
problems in those areas on all cameras, and I dont fuss with them when Im
distracted.

It is at least 90% subjective on my part, I just thought the D70 felt more
rugged than the DRebel (the 300 not the 350 which I have not handled).



I agree that D70 has more rugged feeling that 300D.
It was same thing years ago when I bought the F60. The Rebel felt just
too delicate.
I sold the F60 and bought EOS 300 for my wife. She likes the fact that
it is smaller than the F60. So it is very subjective.

On Mon, 07 Mar 2005 17:38:25 GMT, "Steven M. Scharf"
, wrote in
ink.net:

"adm" wrote in message
...

"Steven M. Scharf" wrote in message

Ummmm.....what about spot metering and fast flash sync ?

The D70 is an anomaly in terms of the fast flash sync, even the D2X
doesn't have the fast flash sync.

It's because the D70's 1/500s flash sync at ISO200 is exactly the same as
the D2X's 1/250s at ISO100. No advantage there whatsoever.

It's a real advantage to the D70,
but it wasn't like Canon decided to decontent it out of the EOS-350D
in order to get people to go to a model that has it.

It's only 1/3 stop different, not much an advantage to sway anything
except bragging right.


--
T.N.T.

Lbh xabj jung gb qb vs lbh rire jnag gb rznvy zr.