Nikon made me buy Canon

As a mere novice to photography it seems a shame to see so much anti-support
from such big names.

Digital photography is a sea-change in taking images - it is a shame to see
a customer base being dumped so badly. Didn't N also charge their own
customers for proprietery software bundle too?

If so, that really does make my nipples hurt. A digital camera does need
good software.

I'd like to see one of the big brands team up with PSCS as a bundle. Then I
may (emphasis on may) part with my hard earned spondoolies to DSLR -

I mean DSLR + Lenses + software sorta makes sense in a bundle and to assist
conversion from 35mm to digital

Artie

"Bill Hilton" wrote in message
...
From: "Zebedee"

I have been a Nikon SLR user for 20 years, using mainly FMs and
occasionally
an F3.

Having tried digital compacts, I wanted to get a digital SLR. I'm quite
keen
on manual focus lenses and see no reason why I should have to use
autofocus
lenses. I was pleased to note that the Nikon bayonet had not changed.

I asked Nikon about using my existing lenses from my FM on a D70

In all fairness to Nikon, if you were still using Canon FD mount manual
focus
lenses then you wouldn't be able to mount those on the dSLR bodies either
since
they require the EF mount. Nikon at least held out longer than Canon ...

Well, if I have to buy new lenses and a new camera, I'm darned well not
forking out for Nikon since they don't support their customers, I said.
Hence I bought a Canon 300D and an 18-55 lens. I shall purchase more
lenses - later.

Bye bye Nikon. You don't support your customer base so we're all
migrating
to Canon!

There is a lengthy list of big-name pros who've switched from Nikon to
Canon
the past 10 years in the nature photography field (often for the super
telephoto IS lenses) and so far as I know almost no big-name guys who
switched
the other way recently. So you are in good company, though their reasons
for
switching were different than yours. Two recent examples are well-known
bird
photographer Tom Vezo, who dumped two F5's, a 600 f/4, a 300 f/2.8 and
miscellaneous other Nikon gear after 30 years of Nikon-only photography to
switch to Canon, claiming the autofocus on the Canon's was much better, or
National Geographic ace Jim Brandenburg, who got the digital bug but was
not
satisfied with the pixel count on the Nikon dSLR's and made the switch so
he
could use the 11 Mpixel Canon 1Ds.

Bill

David Dyer-Bennet wrote:

"Zebedee" writes:

Well, if I have to buy new lenses and a new camera, I'm darned well not
forking out for Nikon since they don't support their customers, I said.
Hence I bought a Canon 300D and an 18-55 lens. I shall purchase more
lenses - later.

Bye bye Nikon. You don't support your customer base so we're all migrating
to Canon!

You do realize that Canon did a much worse thing a few years back,
right? When they went from the FD mount to whatever the auto-focus
system they use now is called, they made a *complete* flag-day change;
no forward or backward compatibility between the old and the new
systems.

Whereas I still use my AIS Nikon lenses on my digital SLR perfectly
happily. And I can use my Nikon auto-focus lenses on my FM, too.
Significant forward and backwards compatibility.

what do you expect? initiative?

Zebedee is not a thinker.

--
David Dyer-Bennet, , http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/
RKBA: http://noguns-nomoney.com/ http://www.dd-b.net/carry/
Pics: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/
Dragaera/Steven Brust: http://dragaera.info/

Zebedee wrote:

"David Dyer-Bennet" wrote in message
...

You do realize that Canon did a much worse thing a few years back,
right? When they went from the FD mount to whatever the auto-focus
system they use now is called, they made a *complete* flag-day change;
no forward or backward compatibility between the old and the new
systems.

Yes. They did BUT Nikon's F4 works with all Nikon MF lenses. So should the
D70 etc. They don't.

they do not work with coolpix either.
if they were that old and canon, they would be useless.

to get professional features, you pay the price,

I was forced to buy a new system so I voted with my
wallet and bought Canon.

Whereas I still use my AIS Nikon lenses on my digital SLR perfectly
happily. And I can use my Nikon auto-focus lenses on my FM, too.
Significant forward and backwards compatibility.

Sure. you can use dAF lenses on an FM but NAI lenses won't work on a D70
which makes the whole exercise utterly pointless. Sure the lenses will fit
physically but with no metering, what's the point? The system's as near as
dammit incompatible and hence useless.

--
Yours

Zebedee

(Claiming asylum in an attempt
to escape paying his debts to
Dougal and Florence)

In article ,
David Bindle wrote:
"Philip Homburg" wrote in message
q.phicoh.net...
That suggests that Nikon basically got the right strategy.

Huh? Once the EOS system proved itself there was an incredible flood of
professionals that moved to Canon. So much so that more professionals use
Canon 35mm and digital now than Nikon, whereas in the days of manual focus
FD's... Nikon enjoyed top choice with professionals

I don't know what Nikon is doing, but I doubt that the lens mount has
much to with it. The first Nikon AF system (for the F3) had the AF motor
in the lens. Why did it take them so long to convert to AF-S? I don't know.
The whole IS/VR system is also independent of the lens mount (possibly
with the exception of controling the aperture).

That suggests that Canon basically got the right strategy.

It looks like Nikon's innovations (the RGB light meter in the F5) are not
important enough to stay with Nikon. I guess that Canon's innovations are
much more practical. I doubt that it has much to do with the lens mount
(or backward compatibility). In the high-end digital market, it looks like
Canon is at least one step ahead of Nikon.

Frankly.... I don't really care... I can't afford more than a small number
of quality lenses anyways.

Old manual focus Nikkors are cheap enough that I have lots of them.


--
The Electronic Monk was a labor-saving device, like a dishwasher or a video
recorder. [...] Video recorders watched tedious television for you, thus saving
you the bother of looking at it yourself; Electronic Monks believed things for
you, [...] -- Douglas Adams in Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency

In article ,
David Bindle wrote:
"Philip Homburg" wrote in message
q.phicoh.net...
That suggests that Nikon basically got the right strategy.

Huh? Once the EOS system proved itself there was an incredible flood of
professionals that moved to Canon. So much so that more professionals use
Canon 35mm and digital now than Nikon, whereas in the days of manual focus
FD's... Nikon enjoyed top choice with professionals

I don't know what Nikon is doing, but I doubt that the lens mount has
much to with it. The first Nikon AF system (for the F3) had the AF motor
in the lens. Why did it take them so long to convert to AF-S? I don't know.
The whole IS/VR system is also independent of the lens mount (possibly
with the exception of controling the aperture).

That suggests that Canon basically got the right strategy.

It looks like Nikon's innovations (the RGB light meter in the F5) are not
important enough to stay with Nikon. I guess that Canon's innovations are
much more practical. I doubt that it has much to do with the lens mount
(or backward compatibility). In the high-end digital market, it looks like
Canon is at least one step ahead of Nikon.

Frankly.... I don't really care... I can't afford more than a small number
of quality lenses anyways.

Old manual focus Nikkors are cheap enough that I have lots of them.


--
The Electronic Monk was a labor-saving device, like a dishwasher or a video
recorder. [...] Video recorders watched tedious television for you, thus saving
you the bother of looking at it yourself; Electronic Monks believed things for
you, [...] -- Douglas Adams in Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency

Canon continued to make and support manual lenses and manual bodies
until the market for them dried up. Nikon tried to do it piecemeal and keep
compatibility. Good thought - lousy results.
Nikon has been a nightmare of different "compatibilities" ever since. Had
they been looking to the future they would have known that a bunch of
mechanical connections in a small mount were a deadly combination with
auto-focus and electronic operation. This was why it took Nikon a whole
extra generation to produce a working auto-focus SLR -- instead of teh joke
AF in the F4.
And that's why Nikon lost my wife in 1991 when she wanted an AF camera,
and why I ended up trading in my Nikons on Canon in 1992 for my own use.

--
http://www.chapelhillnoir.com
home of The Camera-ist's Manifesto
The Improved Links Pages are at
http://www.chapelhillnoir.com/links/mlinks00.html
A sample chapter from my novel "Haight-Ashbury" is at
http://www.chapelhillnoir.com/writ/hait/hatitl.html
"David Dyer-Bennet" wrote in message
...
"Zebedee" writes:

Well, if I have to buy new lenses and a new camera, I'm darned well not
forking out for Nikon since they don't support their customers, I said.
Hence I bought a Canon 300D and an 18-55 lens. I shall purchase more
lenses - later.

Bye bye Nikon. You don't support your customer base so we're all
migrating
to Canon!

You do realize that Canon did a much worse thing a few years back,
right? When they went from the FD mount to whatever the auto-focus
system they use now is called, they made a *complete* flag-day change;
no forward or backward compatibility between the old and the new
systems.

Whereas I still use my AIS Nikon lenses on my digital SLR perfectly
happily. And I can use my Nikon auto-focus lenses on my FM, too.
Significant forward and backwards compatibility.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, , http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/
RKBA: http://noguns-nomoney.com/ http://www.dd-b.net/carry/
Pics: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/
http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/
Dragaera/Steven Brust: http://dragaera.info/

Canon continued to make and support manual lenses and manual bodies
until the market for them dried up. Nikon tried to do it piecemeal and keep
compatibility. Good thought - lousy results.
Nikon has been a nightmare of different "compatibilities" ever since. Had
they been looking to the future they would have known that a bunch of
mechanical connections in a small mount were a deadly combination with
auto-focus and electronic operation. This was why it took Nikon a whole
extra generation to produce a working auto-focus SLR -- instead of teh joke
AF in the F4.
And that's why Nikon lost my wife in 1991 when she wanted an AF camera,
and why I ended up trading in my Nikons on Canon in 1992 for my own use.

--
http://www.chapelhillnoir.com
home of The Camera-ist's Manifesto
The Improved Links Pages are at
http://www.chapelhillnoir.com/links/mlinks00.html
A sample chapter from my novel "Haight-Ashbury" is at
http://www.chapelhillnoir.com/writ/hait/hatitl.html
"David Dyer-Bennet" wrote in message
...
"Zebedee" writes:

Well, if I have to buy new lenses and a new camera, I'm darned well not
forking out for Nikon since they don't support their customers, I said.
Hence I bought a Canon 300D and an 18-55 lens. I shall purchase more
lenses - later.

Bye bye Nikon. You don't support your customer base so we're all
migrating
to Canon!

You do realize that Canon did a much worse thing a few years back,
right? When they went from the FD mount to whatever the auto-focus
system they use now is called, they made a *complete* flag-day change;
no forward or backward compatibility between the old and the new
systems.

Whereas I still use my AIS Nikon lenses on my digital SLR perfectly
happily. And I can use my Nikon auto-focus lenses on my FM, too.
Significant forward and backwards compatibility.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, , http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/
RKBA: http://noguns-nomoney.com/ http://www.dd-b.net/carry/
Pics: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/
http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/
Dragaera/Steven Brust: http://dragaera.info/

For about $ 175 you can buy a novoflex adapter that will enable you to use
some [not all] nikon lenses on a canon eos in stopped down metering mode.
In my opinion nikon had no legitimate reason to cripple the meter in the
d100 or the d70. Absent a chip in the lens the meter won't work. I have the
500mm and 1000mm nikon mirror lenses and they are just fine on an EOS 10D!
Sorry but due to spam I shall not provide a valid e-mail address.
Please reply to group with questions or comments.

"Zebedee" wrote in message
...
I have been a Nikon SLR user for 20 years, using mainly FMs and
occasionally
an F3.
I asked Nikon about using my existing lenses from my FM on a D70 and they
said:
"The D70 needs electronic contacts on the lens with which to communicate
and
meter. Manual lenses (at least 99.9% of them)do not have these contacts
and
therefore the camera would be unable to communicate with such lenses. You
would therefore be able to use the camera in manual mode only and would
have
to use an external light meter to ascertain the correct exposure. YOu
would
obviously also not get TTL flash exposure."

Well, if I have to buy new lenses and a new camera, I'm darned well not
forking out for Nikon since they don't support their customers, I said.
Hence I bought a Canon 300D and an 18-55 lens. I shall purchase more
lenses - later.

For about $ 175 you can buy a novoflex adapter that will enable you to use
some [not all] nikon lenses on a canon eos in stopped down metering mode.
In my opinion nikon had no legitimate reason to cripple the meter in the
d100 or the d70. Absent a chip in the lens the meter won't work. I have the
500mm and 1000mm nikon mirror lenses and they are just fine on an EOS 10D!
Sorry but due to spam I shall not provide a valid e-mail address.
Please reply to group with questions or comments.

"Zebedee" wrote in message
...
I have been a Nikon SLR user for 20 years, using mainly FMs and
occasionally
an F3.
I asked Nikon about using my existing lenses from my FM on a D70 and they
said:
"The D70 needs electronic contacts on the lens with which to communicate
and
meter. Manual lenses (at least 99.9% of them)do not have these contacts
and
therefore the camera would be unable to communicate with such lenses. You
would therefore be able to use the camera in manual mode only and would
have
to use an external light meter to ascertain the correct exposure. YOu
would
obviously also not get TTL flash exposure."

Well, if I have to buy new lenses and a new camera, I'm darned well not
forking out for Nikon since they don't support their customers, I said.
Hence I bought a Canon 300D and an 18-55 lens. I shall purchase more
lenses - later.

"Zebedee" wrote in message
...
I have been a Nikon SLR user for 20 years, using mainly FMs and
occasionally
an F3.

Having tried digital compacts, I wanted to get a digital SLR. I'm quite
keen
on manual focus lenses and see no reason why I should have to use
autofocus
lenses. I was pleased to note that the Nikon bayonet had not changed.

I asked Nikon about using my existing lenses from my FM on a D70 and they
said:
"The D70 needs electronic contacts on the lens with which to communicate
and
meter. Manual lenses (at least 99.9% of them)do not have these contacts
and
therefore the camera would be unable to communicate with such lenses. You
would therefore be able to use the camera in manual mode only and would
have
to use an external light meter to ascertain the correct exposure. YOu
would
obviously also not get TTL flash exposure."

Well, if I have to buy new lenses and a new camera, I'm darned well not
forking out for Nikon since they don't support their customers, I said.
Hence I bought a Canon 300D and an 18-55 lens. I shall purchase more
lenses - later.

Bye bye Nikon. You don't support your customer base so we're all migrating
to Canon!


Canon digitals don't support older manual focus lenses either, so I'm not
sure you made any kind of point.

Mark