DSLR choices?? help please

On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 06:41:41 GMT, David J Taylor wrote:

You get a proper "click" when you take the photo, rather than with a
P&S when you are never really sure when it has actually taken the
shot!
Cheers - Adrian www.boliston.co.uk

Adrian,

You should try one of the ZLR cameras - you can set the shutter speed etc.
while looking through the EVF, and the camera doesn't need to be held away
from the body. Having a loud "clunk" noise when you take a picture isn't
always an advantage!

And with the ZLR you often are able to select different noises or
disable them completely. Some digital P&S cameras, such as Ricoh's
moderately expensive GR Digital can have short enough delays (Half
to Full-press Lag using external viewfinder of ~0.03 sec.) and even
No Press to Full-press Lag can be very short (0.2 sec) if the camera
is used in Snap Mode which uses fixed focus, so there's no AF delay.

"David J Taylor"
wrote in message k...

Adrian,

You should try one of the ZLR cameras - you can set the shutter speed etc.
while looking through the EVF, and the camera doesn't need to be held away
from the body. Having a loud "clunk" noise when you take a picture isn't
always an advantage!

There was a zlr the salesman showed me when I was buying my D70s (a
panasonic i think) but it didn't have the erganomic "feel" that the Nikon
had, yet it was almost as expensive! Also it has not got the flexability
of swapping lenses. Also an EVF can never match a true optical viewfinder

On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 09:33:42 +0100, Adrian Boliston wrote:

Also an EVF can never match a true optical viewfinder

True. Some people actually prefer seeing less than 100% of what
will be captured by the sensor as well as the preferring the
parallax error that can make macro shooting so much fun!

Adrian Boliston wrote:
[]
There was a zlr the salesman showed me when I was buying my D70s (a
panasonic i think) but it didn't have the erganomic "feel" that the
Nikon had, yet it was almost as expensive! Also it has not got the
flexability of swapping lenses. Also an EVF can never match a true
optical viewfinder

You mean you can get the D70S for about GBP 250? - I hadn't realised they
were that strongly discounted! G

Something like the compact Panasonic FZ5 (weighing about 300g) would
probably be a nice complementary camera when you don't want to risk the
D70S. No dust when not swapping lenses, as well!

David

To the OP -

You've been getting some good advice but you may find this article of
mine, on picking your first SLR, to be useful:
http://www.photosafariindia.com/articles/beg1-slr.html

It most likely wont help you figure out which camera you need, but it
will help you ask the right questions to determine the best camera for
YOU (as opposed to me, or anyone else).

Cheers,
Vandit

PS: There is also a newly-revised companion piece of lenses that you
may find helpful.

"David J Taylor"
wrote

You should try one of the ZLR cameras - you can set the shutter speed etc.
while looking through the EVF, and the camera doesn't need to be held away
from the body. Having a loud "clunk" noise when you take a picture isn't
always an advantage!

As I recall, "ZLR" was the term coined by Olympus several years ago to mean
its non-interchangeable zoom-lens 35mm SLRs. But you're using it to mean the
more advanced "SLR-like" digital cameras, right?

If this is a new usage, I do like it a lot better than "P&S" for such
cameras -- which is terribly inappropriate.

Neil

Neil Harrington wrote:
[]
As I recall, "ZLR" was the term coined by Olympus several years ago
to mean its non-interchangeable zoom-lens 35mm SLRs. But you're using
it to mean the more advanced "SLR-like" digital cameras, right?

If this is a new usage, I do like it a lot better than "P&S" for such
cameras -- which is terribly inappropriate.

Neil

Yes, Neil. There was a discussion some time ago, when the split of
rec.photo.digital was being considered, as to what to call 'more advanced
"SLR-like" digital cameras', and ZLR won the day. Things have blurred
even more since then, with many of the entry-level DSLRs offering P&S
features like scene modes, EVF, built-in flash etc. etc.

David

Adrian Boliston wrote:

The whole "experience" of using a DSLR is totally different frfom a P&S
camera:

No more fiddling around with complex menus to get it to do what you want -
controls are at your fingertips. (WB, ISO, metering mode etc)
Being able to set aperture or shutter speed while looking through the
viewfinder.
Not having to hold the thing at arms's length looking at a grainy LCD
"preview"
No more fiddling with a useless "zoom button" - you actually get to control
the zoom via a zoom ring.
You get a proper "click" when you take the photo, rather than with a P&S
when you are never really sure when it has actually taken the shot!


Well, it depends on the camera. Some of the EVF cameras are very good
ergonomically, eg the minolta dimage a2 (and I suppose the a200) are
really excellent (and no zoom button!). The a2 also has an excellent
EVF. Ergonomically, I imagine they're comparable to others of that
kind.

Their main disadvantage compared to SLRs are lack of interchangeable
lenses, slower autofocus, more noise.

"David J Taylor"
wrote in message k...
Neil Harrington wrote:
[]
As I recall, "ZLR" was the term coined by Olympus several years ago
to mean its non-interchangeable zoom-lens 35mm SLRs. But you're using
it to mean the more advanced "SLR-like" digital cameras, right?

If this is a new usage, I do like it a lot better than "P&S" for such
cameras -- which is terribly inappropriate.

Neil

Yes, Neil. There was a discussion some time ago, when the split of
rec.photo.digital was being considered, as to what to call 'more advanced
"SLR-like" digital cameras', and ZLR won the day.

Ah. Fair enough. Technically wrong (the "R" part) but it's sure better than
the other.


Things have blurred even more since then, with many of the entry-level
DSLRs offering P&S features like scene modes, EVF, built-in flash etc.
etc.

How can even an entry-level dSLR have an EVF? What camera, for instance?
(Mostly I only follow Nikons and Minoltas [Sony] and don't know much about
the others.)

As for built-in flash, I don't see that as a "P&S feature." Every 35mm SLR I
bought after the Minolta 8000i has a built-in flash, as do my Maxxum 5D and
Nikon D70s of course. These are certainly not P&S cameras.

As for scene modes, sure they're on P&S models, but Minolta SLR 35s have
used them for several years too, so I wouldn't necessarily call that a "P&S
feature."

The whole idea behind the "point and shoot" term originally was that that
was just about all you could do with such a camera. No controls, no
settings, no adjustments except for a few on-off things having to do with
flash and self-timer. This seems to have been lost in the current popular
misusage of "P&S."

Neil

Where will it stop? BTW, did you look at the Sony with the built in
Image Stabilization or the Olympus with the sensor cleaning and two
lens bargain kit?

http://www.popphoto.com/cameras/2880...rebel-xti.html



Stormlady wrote:
"ASAAR" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 19:21:00 GMT, Stormlady wrote:

So I'm in the market now for a DSLR and I jsut don't know what to do.
We're
definately getting either a Canon or a Nikon. We were looking at the
D70s
and the 20D primarily. Then Nikon goes and announces the D80 and Canon
stops making the 20D so that kinda threw us for a loop and altered our
choices somewhat. The 30 D I'm fairly sure is out of our price range,
but
should I really count out the 20D because it's been discontinued?

Is the 30D really that much more expensive than the 20D? Most of
the comments I've seen indicated that it was only a slight upgrade
and even Canon fans seem to agree that unless they've been sorely
dissatisfied with the 20D's lack of a spot meter, upgrading the 20D
to a 30D probably isn't justified. On the other hand, if the choice
was to be between a 20D and a 30D, the preference swings more toward
the 30D. But this preference was far from unanimous, and depended
on whether the 30D's additional features were justified despite its
higher cost. Don't automatically rule out the 20D. There are
in-depth reviews of the 30D that compare it with the 20D, and one
good one is dpreview's. Don't rely too heavily on newsgroup
opinions (mine included). It's better to compare features and
prices and make your own decision. Note that the link below points
to only the first of the review's 30 pages.


We've gone to look at them locally, and there does seem to be a bit of a
difference in price, around $400-500 if I recall correctly, that is enought
right now to put it effectively out of our range.

snip