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#11
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Thanks, Bill. As always, you are a fountain of information and I
appreciate it that you share. I do have a follow-up question, though, about lenses. You mentioned that if you could only take two lenses, one of them would be a 70-200. I am looking at a 28-200, as previously noted, as well as other 70-200 and 75-300 lenses. What is the advantage (or disadvantage) of going with a 28-200 lense, as opposed to a 70-200 lense? Bill Hilton wrote: From: Tony Graber I am planning a visit to the Grand Canyon the day after Thanksgiving which trails are good for taking pictures at sunrise and which are good for sunset, or both? If you mean trails below the rim then there are only two maintained ones, Bright Angel and Kaibab (there are also six other non-maintained south rim trails that were used by miners etc 100 years ago but you shouldn't try those until you have experience on the basic ones ... I've hiked for three days on some of these without seeing anyone at all so if you get into trouble on them you are really in trouble). Bright Angel is in a drainage with cliffs extending out on two sides blocking the early and late sun for the first several miles below the rim, so it's not a good choice for sunrise/sunset shots. This trailhead is near the main complex of hotels, a couple hundred yards west of El Tovar Lodge. Kaibab is a few miles to the east. It starts in a drainage but quickly (half a mile or so) becomes a ridge trail with drop offs on both sides, meaning you can shoot into the sun or with the sun at your back either early or late. For this reason Kaibab is by far the best choice for sunrise/sunset shots from a trail. How far will I have to hike down any of these trails to get where I need to be for good opportunities for photos? I would prefer not to hike more than 30 minutes down into the Canyon ... Is this possible? There are seven steep switchbacks at the head of Kaibab, then the trail traverses to your right for maybe half a mile as it goes under the cliff face of Yaki Point. Once you reach the end of this you suddenly have a great view of the canyon upstream for about 20 miles. This first point is nick-named "Oh My Gosh!" point and when you reach it you'll understand why. From here on down you'll have numerous scenic opportunities in all directions, depending on the light. If you can extend your 30 minutes a bit to say 45-60 minutes you should be able to easily make Cedar Ridge, which is an open area about 1.5 miles from the rim with a pit toilet and hitching post for mule riders. You can hike straight out the point toward the north rim (off the trail) and shoot on either side. This is a great area early and late. Here's a photo I took from Mather Point that shows Cedar Ridge, which is on the main ridge-line running across the frame about 1/3 the way in from the right edge of the image where the steep part flattens out a bit ... http://members.aol.com/canyonimge/ga...ngstorm_gc.htm ... A pack mule train will start down from the top of the trail at sunrise and if you're below it and get set up you can often get a nice shot of the pack train in the foreground with the canyon opening up behind. Also there are typically two or three mule trains coming UP the canyon with over-night guests from Phantom Ranch and they reach Cedar Ridge at about 11 AM or so. One problem is getting to the trailhead early enough to start down early enough to catch the actual sunrise since the trailhead parking lot is not open unless you have a camping permit for the inner canyon. The hiker's shuttle bus to Kaibab and Yaki Point usually gets there an hour before sunrise and you NEED to be on that first bus to get far enough down the trail for sunrise. Check the bus schedule when you arrive at the park, you can pick it up at the entrance. You can also have someone drive you close to the trailhead and walk in earlier if you're traveling with someone. Also, if there is an early snow storm the upper section might be icy and slippery early in the AM so be careful. Check it out the afternoon before. You can rent step-in crampons at the General Store for the first set of switchbacks, if need be. If you're going to Cedar Ridge take food and water and plan on taking twice as long to hike back up as you took to hike down. My question is, what types of lenses (and sizes) would be appropriate for taking good photos of scenary as vast as at the Grand Canyon? If wide angle, how wide? Why? If zoom, how much is appropriate and why? I have been looking at a Tamron lense 28-200mm and wonder if it might fit my purposes. Many pros who shoot for Arizona Highways (Dykinga, Ladd, Muench, etc) prefer short to medium telephotos to compress the distances and isolate well-lit features. The problem with a wide angle is that the other side of the canyon is about 12 miles away and there's often a bit of haze, so a lot of wide angle shots look dull. You can usually get far enough back from objects on THIS side of the canyon to hold sufficient depth of field to get this side and the other side in focus with some compression with shorter telephotos. If I could only take one lens for 35 mm it would probably be a 70-200. If I could take two I'd make the second one a 17-35 or 28-70, probably the 17-35. If you really want to shoot wide angle I'd guess your 18-55 with the dRebel would be fine, especially since the 55mm has a 35 mm field of view equivalent to 88 mm. The shot I linked to above was taken with a focal length roughly equivalent to this. I have been looking at a Tamron lense 28-200mm and wonder if it might fit my purposes. Should be fine. You probably don't want to carry more than two lenses. Bill |
#12
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Thanks, Bill. As always, you are a fountain of information and I
appreciate it that you share. I do have a follow-up question, though, about lenses. You mentioned that if you could only take two lenses, one of them would be a 70-200. I am looking at a 28-200, as previously noted, as well as other 70-200 and 75-300 lenses. What is the advantage (or disadvantage) of going with a 28-200 lense, as opposed to a 70-200 lense? Bill Hilton wrote: From: Tony Graber I am planning a visit to the Grand Canyon the day after Thanksgiving which trails are good for taking pictures at sunrise and which are good for sunset, or both? If you mean trails below the rim then there are only two maintained ones, Bright Angel and Kaibab (there are also six other non-maintained south rim trails that were used by miners etc 100 years ago but you shouldn't try those until you have experience on the basic ones ... I've hiked for three days on some of these without seeing anyone at all so if you get into trouble on them you are really in trouble). Bright Angel is in a drainage with cliffs extending out on two sides blocking the early and late sun for the first several miles below the rim, so it's not a good choice for sunrise/sunset shots. This trailhead is near the main complex of hotels, a couple hundred yards west of El Tovar Lodge. Kaibab is a few miles to the east. It starts in a drainage but quickly (half a mile or so) becomes a ridge trail with drop offs on both sides, meaning you can shoot into the sun or with the sun at your back either early or late. For this reason Kaibab is by far the best choice for sunrise/sunset shots from a trail. How far will I have to hike down any of these trails to get where I need to be for good opportunities for photos? I would prefer not to hike more than 30 minutes down into the Canyon ... Is this possible? There are seven steep switchbacks at the head of Kaibab, then the trail traverses to your right for maybe half a mile as it goes under the cliff face of Yaki Point. Once you reach the end of this you suddenly have a great view of the canyon upstream for about 20 miles. This first point is nick-named "Oh My Gosh!" point and when you reach it you'll understand why. From here on down you'll have numerous scenic opportunities in all directions, depending on the light. If you can extend your 30 minutes a bit to say 45-60 minutes you should be able to easily make Cedar Ridge, which is an open area about 1.5 miles from the rim with a pit toilet and hitching post for mule riders. You can hike straight out the point toward the north rim (off the trail) and shoot on either side. This is a great area early and late. Here's a photo I took from Mather Point that shows Cedar Ridge, which is on the main ridge-line running across the frame about 1/3 the way in from the right edge of the image where the steep part flattens out a bit ... http://members.aol.com/canyonimge/ga...ngstorm_gc.htm ... A pack mule train will start down from the top of the trail at sunrise and if you're below it and get set up you can often get a nice shot of the pack train in the foreground with the canyon opening up behind. Also there are typically two or three mule trains coming UP the canyon with over-night guests from Phantom Ranch and they reach Cedar Ridge at about 11 AM or so. One problem is getting to the trailhead early enough to start down early enough to catch the actual sunrise since the trailhead parking lot is not open unless you have a camping permit for the inner canyon. The hiker's shuttle bus to Kaibab and Yaki Point usually gets there an hour before sunrise and you NEED to be on that first bus to get far enough down the trail for sunrise. Check the bus schedule when you arrive at the park, you can pick it up at the entrance. You can also have someone drive you close to the trailhead and walk in earlier if you're traveling with someone. Also, if there is an early snow storm the upper section might be icy and slippery early in the AM so be careful. Check it out the afternoon before. You can rent step-in crampons at the General Store for the first set of switchbacks, if need be. If you're going to Cedar Ridge take food and water and plan on taking twice as long to hike back up as you took to hike down. My question is, what types of lenses (and sizes) would be appropriate for taking good photos of scenary as vast as at the Grand Canyon? If wide angle, how wide? Why? If zoom, how much is appropriate and why? I have been looking at a Tamron lense 28-200mm and wonder if it might fit my purposes. Many pros who shoot for Arizona Highways (Dykinga, Ladd, Muench, etc) prefer short to medium telephotos to compress the distances and isolate well-lit features. The problem with a wide angle is that the other side of the canyon is about 12 miles away and there's often a bit of haze, so a lot of wide angle shots look dull. You can usually get far enough back from objects on THIS side of the canyon to hold sufficient depth of field to get this side and the other side in focus with some compression with shorter telephotos. If I could only take one lens for 35 mm it would probably be a 70-200. If I could take two I'd make the second one a 17-35 or 28-70, probably the 17-35. If you really want to shoot wide angle I'd guess your 18-55 with the dRebel would be fine, especially since the 55mm has a 35 mm field of view equivalent to 88 mm. The shot I linked to above was taken with a focal length roughly equivalent to this. I have been looking at a Tamron lense 28-200mm and wonder if it might fit my purposes. Should be fine. You probably don't want to carry more than two lenses. Bill |
#13
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Thanks, Bill. As always, you are a fountain of information and I
appreciate it that you share. I do have a follow-up question, though, about lenses. You mentioned that if you could only take two lenses, one of them would be a 70-200. I am looking at a 28-200, as previously noted, as well as other 70-200 and 75-300 lenses. What is the advantage (or disadvantage) of going with a 28-200 lense, as opposed to a 70-200 lense? Bill Hilton wrote: From: Tony Graber I am planning a visit to the Grand Canyon the day after Thanksgiving which trails are good for taking pictures at sunrise and which are good for sunset, or both? If you mean trails below the rim then there are only two maintained ones, Bright Angel and Kaibab (there are also six other non-maintained south rim trails that were used by miners etc 100 years ago but you shouldn't try those until you have experience on the basic ones ... I've hiked for three days on some of these without seeing anyone at all so if you get into trouble on them you are really in trouble). Bright Angel is in a drainage with cliffs extending out on two sides blocking the early and late sun for the first several miles below the rim, so it's not a good choice for sunrise/sunset shots. This trailhead is near the main complex of hotels, a couple hundred yards west of El Tovar Lodge. Kaibab is a few miles to the east. It starts in a drainage but quickly (half a mile or so) becomes a ridge trail with drop offs on both sides, meaning you can shoot into the sun or with the sun at your back either early or late. For this reason Kaibab is by far the best choice for sunrise/sunset shots from a trail. How far will I have to hike down any of these trails to get where I need to be for good opportunities for photos? I would prefer not to hike more than 30 minutes down into the Canyon ... Is this possible? There are seven steep switchbacks at the head of Kaibab, then the trail traverses to your right for maybe half a mile as it goes under the cliff face of Yaki Point. Once you reach the end of this you suddenly have a great view of the canyon upstream for about 20 miles. This first point is nick-named "Oh My Gosh!" point and when you reach it you'll understand why. From here on down you'll have numerous scenic opportunities in all directions, depending on the light. If you can extend your 30 minutes a bit to say 45-60 minutes you should be able to easily make Cedar Ridge, which is an open area about 1.5 miles from the rim with a pit toilet and hitching post for mule riders. You can hike straight out the point toward the north rim (off the trail) and shoot on either side. This is a great area early and late. Here's a photo I took from Mather Point that shows Cedar Ridge, which is on the main ridge-line running across the frame about 1/3 the way in from the right edge of the image where the steep part flattens out a bit ... http://members.aol.com/canyonimge/ga...ngstorm_gc.htm ... A pack mule train will start down from the top of the trail at sunrise and if you're below it and get set up you can often get a nice shot of the pack train in the foreground with the canyon opening up behind. Also there are typically two or three mule trains coming UP the canyon with over-night guests from Phantom Ranch and they reach Cedar Ridge at about 11 AM or so. One problem is getting to the trailhead early enough to start down early enough to catch the actual sunrise since the trailhead parking lot is not open unless you have a camping permit for the inner canyon. The hiker's shuttle bus to Kaibab and Yaki Point usually gets there an hour before sunrise and you NEED to be on that first bus to get far enough down the trail for sunrise. Check the bus schedule when you arrive at the park, you can pick it up at the entrance. You can also have someone drive you close to the trailhead and walk in earlier if you're traveling with someone. Also, if there is an early snow storm the upper section might be icy and slippery early in the AM so be careful. Check it out the afternoon before. You can rent step-in crampons at the General Store for the first set of switchbacks, if need be. If you're going to Cedar Ridge take food and water and plan on taking twice as long to hike back up as you took to hike down. My question is, what types of lenses (and sizes) would be appropriate for taking good photos of scenary as vast as at the Grand Canyon? If wide angle, how wide? Why? If zoom, how much is appropriate and why? I have been looking at a Tamron lense 28-200mm and wonder if it might fit my purposes. Many pros who shoot for Arizona Highways (Dykinga, Ladd, Muench, etc) prefer short to medium telephotos to compress the distances and isolate well-lit features. The problem with a wide angle is that the other side of the canyon is about 12 miles away and there's often a bit of haze, so a lot of wide angle shots look dull. You can usually get far enough back from objects on THIS side of the canyon to hold sufficient depth of field to get this side and the other side in focus with some compression with shorter telephotos. If I could only take one lens for 35 mm it would probably be a 70-200. If I could take two I'd make the second one a 17-35 or 28-70, probably the 17-35. If you really want to shoot wide angle I'd guess your 18-55 with the dRebel would be fine, especially since the 55mm has a 35 mm field of view equivalent to 88 mm. The shot I linked to above was taken with a focal length roughly equivalent to this. I have been looking at a Tamron lense 28-200mm and wonder if it might fit my purposes. Should be fine. You probably don't want to carry more than two lenses. Bill |
#14
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Thanks, Bill. As always, you are a fountain of information and I
appreciate it that you share. I do have a follow-up question, though, about lenses. You mentioned that if you could only take two lenses, one of them would be a 70-200. I am looking at a 28-200, as previously noted, as well as other 70-200 and 75-300 lenses. What is the advantage (or disadvantage) of going with a 28-200 lense, as opposed to a 70-200 lense? Bill Hilton wrote: From: Tony Graber I am planning a visit to the Grand Canyon the day after Thanksgiving which trails are good for taking pictures at sunrise and which are good for sunset, or both? If you mean trails below the rim then there are only two maintained ones, Bright Angel and Kaibab (there are also six other non-maintained south rim trails that were used by miners etc 100 years ago but you shouldn't try those until you have experience on the basic ones ... I've hiked for three days on some of these without seeing anyone at all so if you get into trouble on them you are really in trouble). Bright Angel is in a drainage with cliffs extending out on two sides blocking the early and late sun for the first several miles below the rim, so it's not a good choice for sunrise/sunset shots. This trailhead is near the main complex of hotels, a couple hundred yards west of El Tovar Lodge. Kaibab is a few miles to the east. It starts in a drainage but quickly (half a mile or so) becomes a ridge trail with drop offs on both sides, meaning you can shoot into the sun or with the sun at your back either early or late. For this reason Kaibab is by far the best choice for sunrise/sunset shots from a trail. How far will I have to hike down any of these trails to get where I need to be for good opportunities for photos? I would prefer not to hike more than 30 minutes down into the Canyon ... Is this possible? There are seven steep switchbacks at the head of Kaibab, then the trail traverses to your right for maybe half a mile as it goes under the cliff face of Yaki Point. Once you reach the end of this you suddenly have a great view of the canyon upstream for about 20 miles. This first point is nick-named "Oh My Gosh!" point and when you reach it you'll understand why. From here on down you'll have numerous scenic opportunities in all directions, depending on the light. If you can extend your 30 minutes a bit to say 45-60 minutes you should be able to easily make Cedar Ridge, which is an open area about 1.5 miles from the rim with a pit toilet and hitching post for mule riders. You can hike straight out the point toward the north rim (off the trail) and shoot on either side. This is a great area early and late. Here's a photo I took from Mather Point that shows Cedar Ridge, which is on the main ridge-line running across the frame about 1/3 the way in from the right edge of the image where the steep part flattens out a bit ... http://members.aol.com/canyonimge/ga...ngstorm_gc.htm ... A pack mule train will start down from the top of the trail at sunrise and if you're below it and get set up you can often get a nice shot of the pack train in the foreground with the canyon opening up behind. Also there are typically two or three mule trains coming UP the canyon with over-night guests from Phantom Ranch and they reach Cedar Ridge at about 11 AM or so. One problem is getting to the trailhead early enough to start down early enough to catch the actual sunrise since the trailhead parking lot is not open unless you have a camping permit for the inner canyon. The hiker's shuttle bus to Kaibab and Yaki Point usually gets there an hour before sunrise and you NEED to be on that first bus to get far enough down the trail for sunrise. Check the bus schedule when you arrive at the park, you can pick it up at the entrance. You can also have someone drive you close to the trailhead and walk in earlier if you're traveling with someone. Also, if there is an early snow storm the upper section might be icy and slippery early in the AM so be careful. Check it out the afternoon before. You can rent step-in crampons at the General Store for the first set of switchbacks, if need be. If you're going to Cedar Ridge take food and water and plan on taking twice as long to hike back up as you took to hike down. My question is, what types of lenses (and sizes) would be appropriate for taking good photos of scenary as vast as at the Grand Canyon? If wide angle, how wide? Why? If zoom, how much is appropriate and why? I have been looking at a Tamron lense 28-200mm and wonder if it might fit my purposes. Many pros who shoot for Arizona Highways (Dykinga, Ladd, Muench, etc) prefer short to medium telephotos to compress the distances and isolate well-lit features. The problem with a wide angle is that the other side of the canyon is about 12 miles away and there's often a bit of haze, so a lot of wide angle shots look dull. You can usually get far enough back from objects on THIS side of the canyon to hold sufficient depth of field to get this side and the other side in focus with some compression with shorter telephotos. If I could only take one lens for 35 mm it would probably be a 70-200. If I could take two I'd make the second one a 17-35 or 28-70, probably the 17-35. If you really want to shoot wide angle I'd guess your 18-55 with the dRebel would be fine, especially since the 55mm has a 35 mm field of view equivalent to 88 mm. The shot I linked to above was taken with a focal length roughly equivalent to this. I have been looking at a Tamron lense 28-200mm and wonder if it might fit my purposes. Should be fine. You probably don't want to carry more than two lenses. Bill |
#15
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Tony Graber wrote:
Thanks, Bill. As always, you are a fountain of information and I appreciate it that you share. I do have a follow-up question, though, about lenses. You mentioned that if you could only take two lenses, one of them would be a 70-200. I am looking at a 28-200, as previously noted, as well as other 70-200 and 75-300 lenses. What is the advantage (or disadvantage) of going with a 28-200 lense, as opposed to a 70-200 lense? Hi The 70-200 lens Bill uses is an f/2.8 L IS lens and very sharp. In general, the larger the zoom range, the more compromises that need to be made in the design. A factor of 3 is about the maximum without compromising too much on image quality and maximum aperture. That is why you see most zooms limited to the approximately 3x range. The 28-200 is a 7x range. I have not looked up the specific quality of that lens but I would be surprised if it came close to the 70-200 L IS lens. The 70-200 is next on my list to get. Roger |
#16
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Tony Graber wrote:
Thanks, Bill. As always, you are a fountain of information and I appreciate it that you share. I do have a follow-up question, though, about lenses. You mentioned that if you could only take two lenses, one of them would be a 70-200. I am looking at a 28-200, as previously noted, as well as other 70-200 and 75-300 lenses. What is the advantage (or disadvantage) of going with a 28-200 lense, as opposed to a 70-200 lense? Hi The 70-200 lens Bill uses is an f/2.8 L IS lens and very sharp. In general, the larger the zoom range, the more compromises that need to be made in the design. A factor of 3 is about the maximum without compromising too much on image quality and maximum aperture. That is why you see most zooms limited to the approximately 3x range. The 28-200 is a 7x range. I have not looked up the specific quality of that lens but I would be surprised if it came close to the 70-200 L IS lens. The 70-200 is next on my list to get. Roger |
#17
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Wow! Thank you! I did not realize that there is a problem with a factor
greater than 3 compromising image quality and maximum aperature. I went to B&N today to try to answer my own question and went through a dozen or so-called "how-to's" without finding anything remotely close to the short answer that you have given. Thank you very much! Tony Graber Roger N. Clark (change username to rnclark) wrote: Tony Graber wrote: Thanks, Bill. As always, you are a fountain of information and I appreciate it that you share. I do have a follow-up question, though, about lenses. You mentioned that if you could only take two lenses, one of them would be a 70-200. I am looking at a 28-200, as previously noted, as well as other 70-200 and 75-300 lenses. What is the advantage (or disadvantage) of going with a 28-200 lense, as opposed to a 70-200 lense? Hi The 70-200 lens Bill uses is an f/2.8 L IS lens and very sharp. In general, the larger the zoom range, the more compromises that need to be made in the design. A factor of 3 is about the maximum without compromising too much on image quality and maximum aperture. That is why you see most zooms limited to the approximately 3x range. The 28-200 is a 7x range. I have not looked up the specific quality of that lens but I would be surprised if it came close to the 70-200 L IS lens. The 70-200 is next on my list to get. Roger |
#18
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Wow! Thank you! I did not realize that there is a problem with a factor
greater than 3 compromising image quality and maximum aperature. I went to B&N today to try to answer my own question and went through a dozen or so-called "how-to's" without finding anything remotely close to the short answer that you have given. Thank you very much! Tony Graber Roger N. Clark (change username to rnclark) wrote: Tony Graber wrote: Thanks, Bill. As always, you are a fountain of information and I appreciate it that you share. I do have a follow-up question, though, about lenses. You mentioned that if you could only take two lenses, one of them would be a 70-200. I am looking at a 28-200, as previously noted, as well as other 70-200 and 75-300 lenses. What is the advantage (or disadvantage) of going with a 28-200 lense, as opposed to a 70-200 lense? Hi The 70-200 lens Bill uses is an f/2.8 L IS lens and very sharp. In general, the larger the zoom range, the more compromises that need to be made in the design. A factor of 3 is about the maximum without compromising too much on image quality and maximum aperture. That is why you see most zooms limited to the approximately 3x range. The 28-200 is a 7x range. I have not looked up the specific quality of that lens but I would be surprised if it came close to the 70-200 L IS lens. The 70-200 is next on my list to get. Roger |
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#20
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