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Is X-Sync speed a "big deal" anymore - now that we have High-speed synch on powerful flash units?



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 24th 05, 06:35 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
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Default Is X-Sync speed a "big deal" anymore - now that we have High-speed synch on powerful flash units?

Hi all,

I've been plowing through an online "book" on Canon EOS Flash Photography
http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-flash/ (OK - it's really just a web page,
but ran to 99 pages when I copied and pasted it into Word).

In the past I've occasionally come up against the 20D's 1/250th X-Sync
"limitation" - I knew that I could go faster if I used High Speed Sync, but
for some reason I had it in my mind that High Speed Sync (or FP Mode) was
vastly inferior, and was likely to get poorly metered results.

How wrong can a mouse be?

Having read through the article it appears that the only limitation is that
it efectively reduces the output of the unit by around 1/3 - often a
non-issue with big monsters like the 580EX (especially several of them).

To "prove the point" I setup my 20D on manual and in a room with very
subdued lighting I set it for 1/250 (and some at 1/500) - F2.8 - F5.6 -
attached my remote transmitter, and let rip with a couple of 580EX's pointed
at my victims. The result? EVERY one absolutely spot on - PERFECT exposure.

The only limitation I hit was the 580EX not being able to cycle fast enough
when I fired a burst of shots.

With this in mind, it begs me to ask the question: "Is an X-Sync speed of
"this" or "that" simply irrelivant in this day and age?

Additionally, can anyone think of a reason why Canon couldn't even give us a
custom function that says "Use FP Mode when 1/250 of a Sec"?

Would be interested to hear peoples thoughts.



  #2  
Old December 24th 05, 07:18 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
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Default Is X-Sync speed a "big deal" anymore - now that we have High-speed synch on powerful flash units?

C J Southern wrote:

The only limitation I hit was the 580EX not being able to cycle fast enough
when I fired a burst of shots.

With this in mind, it begs me to ask the question: "Is an X-Sync speed of
"this" or "that" simply irrelivant in this day and age?


High-speed sync works differently from normal flash mode in that the flash
actually becomes "slower" -- it fires multiple pulses instead of a single
flash, and thus is not good for stopping motion -- the exposure time is
actually controlled by the shutter speed, whereas the flash duration is
much shorter in normal mode.

Other disadvantages: the flash may use more battery power and recycle
more slowly, and will give you less total exposure; you can't calculate
flash exposure using flash power (guide number) and aperture any more;
and it will only work with a dedicated electronic flash unit.

Apart from that, there's no reason not to use it. As you discovered,
it does work as advertised. It's just not a "real" flash sync mode.

--
Jeremy |
  #3  
Old December 24th 05, 07:37 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
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Default Is X-Sync speed a "big deal" anymore - now that we have High-speedsynch on powerful flash units?

C J Southern skrev:
Hi all,

I've been plowing through an online "book" on Canon EOS Flash Photography
http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-flash/ (OK - it's really just a web page,
but ran to 99 pages when I copied and pasted it into Word).

In the past I've occasionally come up against the 20D's 1/250th X-Sync
"limitation" - I knew that I could go faster if I used High Speed Sync, but
for some reason I had it in my mind that High Speed Sync (or FP Mode) was
vastly inferior, and was likely to get poorly metered results.


http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/syncspeed.htm

--
Med venlig hilsen, Ole Larsen.
New Images And Design 2005-11-17
http://home.tiscali.dk/muggler
  #4  
Old December 24th 05, 08:13 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
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Default Is X-Sync speed a "big deal" anymore - now that we have High-speed synch on powerful flash units?


"Ole Larsen" wrote in message
...

http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/syncspeed.htm


Interesting article, but from what I've read previously, his "limitations"
don't appear to totally hold true in a Canon EOS Flash environment ...

eg. "On every camera I own the FP mode reverts back to totally manual
exposure calculation" - I guess he doesn't own a Canon 20D or above, because
the metering works just fine in TV, AP, and M modes.

"The flash always pops at full power on the flashes I've seen. Thus as above
you lose battery life, have long recycle times, no high frame rates and all
the other disadvantages above." - It probably does, but that doesn't mean
it's on at full power for long - or any longer than it would have been at
the X-Sync shutter speed. From what I've read it's pulsed at 50,000 times
per second.

"Since only a fraction of the light at any time is exposing the film or CCD
you lose a lot of light, again getting you back to the problems of limited
flash range" - Others have said "you lose about 1/3" (personally, I wouldn't
know) - again, with multiple, powerful units like the 580EX I wondr how much
of an issue this is?



  #5  
Old December 24th 05, 08:16 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
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Default Is X-Sync speed a "big deal" anymore - now that we have High-speed synch on powerful flash units?


"Jeremy Nixon" wrote in message
...

High-speed sync works differently from normal flash mode in that the flash
actually becomes "slower" -- it fires multiple pulses instead of a single
flash, and thus is not good for stopping motion -- the exposure time is
actually controlled by the shutter speed, whereas the flash duration is
much shorter in normal mode.


Then again, if you're shooting with a shutter speed of upwards of 1/250th,
isn't that going to freeze most motion anyway?

Other disadvantages: the flash may use more battery power and recycle
more slowly, and will give you less total exposure; you can't calculate
flash exposure using flash power (guide number) and aperture any more;
and it will only work with a dedicated electronic flash unit.


I've only ever tried it in Av and Tv and M modes, but left the camera to
sort out the (foreground) exposure - so far it seems to be able to hit the
nail on the head everytime.


  #6  
Old December 24th 05, 10:57 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
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Default Is X-Sync speed a "big deal" anymore - now that we have High-speedsynch on powerful flash units?

C J Southern wrote:
Would be interested to hear peoples thoughts.


I found this article: http://www.photozone.de/3Technology/flashtec5.htm


B.
  #7  
Old December 24th 05, 02:50 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
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Default Is X-Sync speed a "big deal" anymore - now that we have High-speed synch on powerful flash units?

"C J Southern" wrote in message
...
Hi all,

I've been plowing through an online "book" on Canon EOS Flash Photography
http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-flash/ (OK - it's really just a web
page,
but ran to 99 pages when I copied and pasted it into Word).

In the past I've occasionally come up against the 20D's 1/250th X-Sync
"limitation" - I knew that I could go faster if I used High Speed Sync,
but
for some reason I had it in my mind that High Speed Sync (or FP Mode) was
vastly inferior, and was likely to get poorly metered results.

How wrong can a mouse be?

Having read through the article it appears that the only limitation is
that
it efectively reduces the output of the unit by around 1/3 - often a
non-issue with big monsters like the 580EX (especially several of them).

To "prove the point" I setup my 20D on manual and in a room with very
subdued lighting I set it for 1/250 (and some at 1/500) - F2.8 - F5.6 -
attached my remote transmitter, and let rip with a couple of 580EX's
pointed
at my victims. The result? EVERY one absolutely spot on - PERFECT
exposure.

The only limitation I hit was the 580EX not being able to cycle fast
enough
when I fired a burst of shots.

With this in mind, it begs me to ask the question: "Is an X-Sync speed of
"this" or "that" simply irrelivant in this day and age?

Additionally, can anyone think of a reason why Canon couldn't even give us
a
custom function that says "Use FP Mode when 1/250 of a Sec"?

Would be interested to hear peoples thoughts.



The relevance come in when you are working in the studio with strobes, and a
faster shutter speed would allow you to lessen your depth of field.

--
Skip Middleton
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com


  #8  
Old December 24th 05, 09:41 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
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Default Is X-Sync speed a "big deal" anymore - now that we have High-speed synch on powerful flash units?


"Skip M" wrote in message
news:Mlcrf.264$sA3.242@fed1read02...

The relevance come in when you are working in the studio with strobes, and
a faster shutter speed would allow you to lessen your depth of field.


I take it that this is because studio strobes put out a pre-set amount of
light, whereas in an E-TTL (2) system the camera can just shut off the light
source when it's had enough light?


  #9  
Old December 24th 05, 09:47 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
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Default Is X-Sync speed a "big deal" anymore - now that we have High-speed synch on powerful flash units?

"C J Southern" wrote in message
...

"Skip M" wrote in message
news:Mlcrf.264$sA3.242@fed1read02...

The relevance come in when you are working in the studio with strobes,
and a faster shutter speed would allow you to lessen your depth of field.


I take it that this is because studio strobes put out a pre-set amount of
light, whereas in an E-TTL (2) system the camera can just shut off the
light source when it's had enough light?

Not necessarily preset, but limited. Some sets of strobes, like my cheap
ones, have only a couple of stops of latitude in their settings others have
considerably more, but a max synch speed of 1/250, or in my 5Ds case, 1/200,
can lead you to shooting at f8 more than one would like.

--
Skip Middleton
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com


  #10  
Old December 24th 05, 09:53 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
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Posts: n/a
Default Is X-Sync speed a "big deal" anymore - now that we have High-speed synch on powerful flash units?


"Skip M" wrote in message
news:Usirf.311$sA3.227@fed1read02...

Not necessarily preset, but limited. Some sets of strobes, like my cheap
ones, have only a couple of stops of latitude in their settings others
have considerably more, but a max synch speed of 1/250, or in my 5Ds case,
1/200, can lead you to shooting at f8 more than one would like.


So in that situation you can't shoot at, say F4 @ 1/125 because it won't
freeze any motion, and you can't shoot at F4 @ 1/200 because the strobes
don't have enough grunt (or if they do they wash out skin tones etc)?



 




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