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Finally got to the point where no new camera holds my interest(waiting for specific offering)



 
 
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  #21  
Old December 24th 18, 07:22 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Bill W
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,692
Default Finally got to the point where no new camera holds my interest (waiting for specific offering)

On Mon, 24 Dec 2018 21:44:25 +1300, Eric Stevens
wrote:

On Sun, 23 Dec 2018 15:41:19 -0800, Bill W
wrote:

On Sun, 23 Dec 2018 18:25:23 -0500, PeterN
wrote:

On 12/23/2018 5:47 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

dxo scores have less to do with the capabilities of the camera and more
to do with how much a particular company paid dxo.

Is there any evidence to support that claim?

yes.

What is it other than rumour or gossip?

it's neither of those.


Than please share your source.


This is no smoking gun, or even a clear accusation, but it does point
out a problem:

https://www.androidauthority.com/dxo...lesome-805633/

The article has nothing but suspicion of bias and general inuendo. But
note that it also says:

"There’s no reason to believe DxOMark is in anyway rigging results —
after-all the company’s business model depends on its reputation
and its results tend to roughly fit with the broader consensus on
camera hardware."

I suspect that nospam's views are coloured by suspicion of bias and
general innuendo. That and the fact that I doubt he has quite got his
head around the fact the DxO's results are not just tests of a lens
but _tests_of_a_lens_on_a_specific_camera_. The test results are
dependent on not just the qualities of the lens but also the qualities
of the camera. I think it might hhave been Neil who touched on this
quite recently.


This isn't the sort of thing I'd bother arguing about. It would be
crazy to rely on one reviewer to make decisiions anyway. If I'm
looking for something, I read as many reviews as i can find, and then
judge from there. I'm never looking for the "best" in the first place,
just something that appears that it would work well for my hobbyist
purposes.

Anyway, two companies whose software I've had the most problems with
are DXO and Arturia. Both French. So the problem is that France sucks.
  #22  
Old December 24th 18, 08:02 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24,165
Default Finally got to the point where no new camera holds my interest (waiting for specific offering)

In article , Bill W
wrote:

This isn't the sort of thing I'd bother arguing about. It would be
crazy to rely on one reviewer to make decisiions anyway. If I'm
looking for something, I read as many reviews as i can find, and then
judge from there. I'm never looking for the "best" in the first place,
just something that appears that it would work well for my hobbyist
purposes.


that's a good strategy.
  #23  
Old December 25th 18, 03:57 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
PeterN[_7_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,161
Default Finally got to the point where no new camera holds my interest(waiting for specific offering)

On 12/23/2018 6:41 PM, Bill W wrote:
This is no smoking gun, or even a clear accusation, but it does point
out a problem:

https://www.androidauthority.com/dxo...lesome-805633/


I understand what is being said. I am not sure that the author has not
dog in that fight.
I remember when Consumer Reports incorrectly gave a Miranda camera a
terrible rating. That rating put the company out of business.
However, if a company is being accused of taking bribes, the accuser
ought to provide proof of that statement.


--
PeterN
  #24  
Old December 25th 18, 04:02 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
PeterN[_7_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,161
Default Finally got to the point where no new camera holds my interest(waiting for specific offering)

On 12/24/2018 1:22 PM, Bill W wrote:
On Mon, 24 Dec 2018 21:44:25 +1300, Eric Stevens
wrote:

On Sun, 23 Dec 2018 15:41:19 -0800, Bill W
wrote:

On Sun, 23 Dec 2018 18:25:23 -0500, PeterN
wrote:

On 12/23/2018 5:47 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

dxo scores have less to do with the capabilities of the camera and more
to do with how much a particular company paid dxo.

Is there any evidence to support that claim?

yes.

What is it other than rumour or gossip?

it's neither of those.


Than please share your source.


This is no smoking gun, or even a clear accusation, but it does point
out a problem:

https://www.androidauthority.com/dxo...lesome-805633/

The article has nothing but suspicion of bias and general inuendo. But
note that it also says:

"There’s no reason to believe DxOMark is in anyway rigging results —
after-all the company’s business model depends on its reputation
and its results tend to roughly fit with the broader consensus on
camera hardware."

I suspect that nospam's views are coloured by suspicion of bias and
general innuendo. That and the fact that I doubt he has quite got his
head around the fact the DxO's results are not just tests of a lens
but _tests_of_a_lens_on_a_specific_camera_. The test results are
dependent on not just the qualities of the lens but also the qualities
of the camera. I think it might hhave been Neil who touched on this
quite recently.


This isn't the sort of thing I'd bother arguing about. It would be
crazy to rely on one reviewer to make decisiions anyway. If I'm
looking for something, I read as many reviews as i can find, and then
judge from there. I'm never looking for the "best" in the first place,
just something that appears that it would work well for my hobbyist
purposes.

Anyway, two companies whose software I've had the most problems with
are DXO and Arturia. Both French. So the problem is that France sucks.


I do not like DXO's support, and upgrade policies.

--
PeterN
  #25  
Old December 25th 18, 04:06 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
PeterN[_7_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,161
Default Finally got to the point where no new camera holds my interest(waiting for specific offering)

On 12/23/2018 6:48 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , PeterN
wrote:

dxo scores have less to do with the capabilities of the camera and more
to do with how much a particular company paid dxo.

Is there any evidence to support that claim?

yes.

What is it other than rumour or gossip?

it's neither of those.


Than please share your source.


sources.

here's one (of many):
https://www.androidpolice.com/2016/0...-stop-letting-
dxomark-decide-whose-smartphone-camera-is-best-opinion/
DxO Labs is first and foremost a consultancy. Their business model is
based upon being paid to conduct analysis and optimization of imaging
system performance by the companies that make those systems. DxO is
not an independent journalistic entity or trade organization - it is
a for-profit software consultancy for camera makers. Their product is
called DxO Analyzer, and licensees of this suite can opt to purchase
"installation, training and consulting services."
...
...Products that have received versus not received consultancy and
tuning from DxO Labs are not identified, and so it is impossible to
know which camera has likely been tuned to maximize its score under
the test conditions versus which tends to do well without having
specifically been adapted to DxO's parameters.

This also gives DxO Labs the power to silently "shame" the companies
that choose not to license its software or services.

also, their 'tests' claim what is physically impossible, making them
untrustworthy and their scale is whatever they want it to be, with
newer cameras scoring higher and higher.



There is a difference between taking bribes, and producing bad test
results. As to that article, read prior comments made here.

--
PeterN
  #26  
Old December 25th 18, 05:12 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Eric Stevens
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,611
Default Finally got to the point where no new camera holds my interest (waiting for specific offering)

On Mon, 24 Dec 2018 21:57:45 -0500, PeterN
wrote:

On 12/23/2018 6:41 PM, Bill W wrote:
This is no smoking gun, or even a clear accusation, but it does point
out a problem:

https://www.androidauthority.com/dxo...lesome-805633/


I understand what is being said. I am not sure that the author has not
dog in that fight.
I remember when Consumer Reports incorrectly gave a Miranda camera a
terrible rating. That rating put the company out of business.
However, if a company is being accused of taking bribes, the accuser
ought to provide proof of that statement.


Yes, I hope that there was clear evidence of something like that to
back up nospam's unambiguous statement. But apparently there is no
such evidence.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens
  #27  
Old December 25th 18, 05:18 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Eric Stevens
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,611
Default Finally got to the point where no new camera holds my interest (waiting for specific offering)

On Mon, 24 Dec 2018 10:24:54 +0100, Alfred Molon
wrote:

Would have to dig it out, but a while ago on DxOMark there was a chart
claiming that ISO 64 and ISO 200 on the Olympus E-M1 Mark II in fact are
the same ISOs.


Are you thinking of this?
https://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Olym...--Measurements

But the exposure time at ISO 64 is three times the exposure time at ISO
200, so clearly what DxOMark post is nonsense.

--

Regards,

Eric Stevens
  #28  
Old December 25th 18, 05:25 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Eric Stevens
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,611
Default Finally got to the point where no new camera holds my interest (waiting for specific offering)

On Mon, 24 Dec 2018 05:04:52 -0500, nospam
wrote:

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:


here's one (of many):
https://www.androidpolice.com/2016/0...-stop-letting-
dxomark-decide-whose-smartphone-camera-is-best-opinion/
DxO Labs is first and foremost a consultancy. Their business model is
based upon being paid to conduct analysis and optimization of imaging
system performance by the companies that make those systems. DxO is
not an independent journalistic entity or trade organization - it is
a for-profit software consultancy for camera makers. Their product is
called DxO Analyzer, and licensees of this suite can opt to purchase
"installation, training and consulting services."
...
...Products that have received versus not received consultancy and
tuning from DxO Labs are not identified, and so it is impossible to
know which camera has likely been tuned to maximize its score under
the test conditions versus which tends to do well without having
specifically been adapted to DxO's parameters.

This also gives DxO Labs the power to silently "shame" the companies
that choose not to license its software or services.

also, their 'tests' claim what is physically impossible, making them
untrustworthy and their scale is whatever they want it to be, with
newer cameras scoring higher and higher.


Suspicion and innuendo. That's not evidence.


the evidence is quite clear that they cannot be trusted *at* *all*.


The evidence appears to be that you can/will not produce any evidence
to support that statement.

their 'tests' claim what is physically not possible. that alone makes
them a scam


Example? - assuming of course that you are able to cite one.


here's mo
https://www.androidcentral.com/editors-desk-dxomark-worthless
DxOMark controversy is back in the news this week, but the problem
with the mobile camera rating system isn't as simple as manufacturers
'buying' inflated scores.
...
Comment threads suggest something untoward has happened as a result
of OnePlus's recently-announced partnership with DxO

a *partnership* between a camera manufacturer and the company who is
supposedly testing it is very clearly a *huge* problem.


Nothing specific there. Absolutely nothing.

Like a wily student preparing for a standardized test, manufacturers
who partner with DxO, and get access to its hardware and software,
can tune their image processing to ace the firm's synthetic tests
(within the limits of the hardware, of course). As a result, their
review scores are higher when DxO eventually publishes them ‹ because
they've had access to the testing hardware all along. Manufacturers
who don't partner with DxO are at an automatic disadvantage in terms
of their score, even though real-world, outside-of-the-lab image
quality might not be substantially worse. When that happens, as it is
bound to, consumers who put faith in comparisons between scores from
partners and non-partners are potentially misled.


There is nothing wrong with manufacturers to ace DxO's synthetic
tests. This can only make for a better lens, unless of course you know
of a better system suitable for testing a wide range of lenses.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens
  #29  
Old December 25th 18, 08:46 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24,165
Default Finally got to the point where no new camera holds my interest (waiting for specific offering)

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

Yes, I hope that there was clear evidence of something like that to
back up nospam's unambiguous statement. But apparently there is no
such evidence.


there is very clear evidence, but as usual, you are blind to it.
  #30  
Old December 25th 18, 08:47 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24,165
Default Finally got to the point where no new camera holds my interest (waiting for specific offering)

In article , PeterN
wrote:


also, their 'tests' claim what is physically impossible, making them
untrustworthy and their scale is whatever they want it to be, with
newer cameras scoring higher and higher.



There is a difference between taking bribes, and producing bad test
results.


yep, and they're guilty of both.

As to that article, read prior comments made here.


read the link about partnering.

they are not objective and their tests are bogus.
 




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