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End Of An Era:



 
 
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  #12  
Old June 4th 18, 03:42 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
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Posts: 24,165
Default End Of An Era:

In article , RJH wrote:


https://petapixel.com/2015/04/24/12-...ill-choose-to-
sho
ot-film-over-digital/


what a joke. that is a completely bogus article. every single point is
*wrong*.

Snip good points well made

Film might have perceived advantages, even if they're difficult to express:

* More care/time/thought might be taken over taking a shot because of
the cost/time consequences (developing, loading etc) and limitations
(fixed ISO, burst facilities etc);


nothing prevents doing that with digital.

just because someone *can* shoot thousands of photos in a single
session doesn't mean they *must* do so.

instead of a 64 gig or 128 gig card, use a 128 or 256 megabyte card,
which can only hold maybe a dozen photos.

set the camera to fully manual and do not chimp. not even for a test
exposure.

* Much as the analogue/digital discussions in audio, the quality is in
the eye of the beholder - film is 'felt' to be better than digital.


except that the quality of film is measurably *not* better.

the 'film look' and 'the warmth of vinyl records' is distortion, which
can be added back if desired, if one really wants the look of film or
the sound of vinyl.

Ironically, this is often to do with limitations of the medium. And no
amount of measurement or argument is going to shift that perception.


that's true. some people refuse to accept reality.
  #13  
Old June 4th 18, 03:42 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
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Posts: 24,165
Default End Of An Era:

In article , Scott Schuckert
wrote:

meanwhile, billions of digital photos are taken every day and uploaded
to various online services, nearly all of which with smartphones. more
than one *trillion* photos were taken in 2017.


Shall we talk Scotsmen? One could say the vast majority of cell phone
images are what we used to call "snapshots" - images, true, but taken
with no consideration of composition, and all the technical details
left to automation.


so what?

the same happened with film. far more instamatics were used than slrs.

there have been movies shot with iphones, some of which have won awards.

you have a very distorted view of modern photography.
  #14  
Old June 4th 18, 03:46 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
PeterN[_7_]
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Posts: 1,161
Default End Of An Era:

On 6/3/2018 11:02 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , PeterN
wrote:

My phone can take pictures? Son of a gun, so it can... Meanwhile, I
just spent a couple of hundred bucks to have my Nikon F100 body tuned
up.

you're the lone exception.


Another airline survey?


city bus.

i have posted an image of a professional NY photographer, who still uses
film.


that makes two.

meanwhile, billions of digital photos are taken every day and uploaded
to various online services, nearly all of which with smartphones. more
than one *trillion* photos were taken in 2017.

B&H
Adorama

Both of the above sell a lot of film cameras.


nowhere near as many as they used to.

go ask them how their film sales have dramatically dropped off in
recent years.

I wonder why a lot of
professional photographers don't listen to you.


they don't need to. they already are on the digital bandwagon.

very, very few photographers are still shooting film and that number is
shrinking rapidly.

https://petapixel.com/2015/04/24/12-...-choose-to-sho
ot-film-over-digital/


what a joke. that is a completely bogus article. every single point is
*wrong*.

#1. Film Photography Was Already Perfect

nothing is perfect, however, film is a lot *less* perfect than digital.

that also contradicts his other point, #11, 'for the imperfections'.
either film is perfect or it's not. it can't be both.

#2. Higher Dynamic Range

absolutely false.

#3: It Slows You Down

nothing prevents shooting slowly with digital, and that's actually a
drawback. it's nothing more than rationalizing what is a limitation.

#4. The Pictures Are Permanent

no they definitely aren't.

film fades and/or can be damaged by moisture, mold, fire, physical
damage (e.g., tears, stains), etc.

digital does not deteriorate in any way and can easily last forever,
much to the chagrin of the people in the photos.

#5. The Chemicals Smell Oh So Good

apparently the author has been inhaling a bit too much, and more than
just photo chemicals.

#6. You Don¹t Need Electricity

good luck trying to print a photo or show a slide without electricity.

good luck trying to take a photo without electricity. film cameras
needed batteries to power the exposure meter, electronic flash (or
flash bulbs), and winder/motor drive.*

electricity is not exactly hard to find either.

he's grasping.

* selenium meters don't need batteries but they're difficult to find
and not that accurate. magicube flash cubes don't need batteries, but
good luck finding those either, plus they only work with instamatic
style cameras, not an slr the author presumably would be using.

#7. It ³Just Looks Better²

no it definitely does not.

digital has significantly higher resolution, dynamic range and colour
accuracy than film.

not only that, but digital gets *better* as technology improves.

modern displays show a wider range and more accurate colours as well as
a wider dynamic range than older displays did.

today's raw converters, noise reduction and other image processing
produces better results than in the past.

nevertheless, for those who want the 'film look', the quality can be
downgraded very easily.

#8. A Digital Photograph is Just a Pixel Mosaic

meaningless twaddle.

a film photograph is just a bunch of grains.

everything is just a bunch of molecules.

#9. Film Cameras Are Inexpensive

only because nobody wants them, with the exception of rare collectibles
which are not purchased to be used.

he's also neglecting the ongoing cost of film and processing, which
quickly adds up the more photos that are taken.

digital not only produces better results, but is cheaper to operate!

#10. To Be DifferentÅ* A Talking Point

one can be different while shooting digital.

walk around with this:
https://www.wired.com/images_blogs/gadgetlab/2010/05/bleurrrgh.jpg

https://www.wired.com/2010/05/rainbo...requires-sungl
asses-to-use/

#11. For the Imperfections

that contradicts #1, where he said film was perfect.

nevertheless, the imperfections of film can be added to any digital
image, assuming one wants them.

#12. The Element of Surprise

that is not unique to film cameras.


Anticipated response, that predictability does not respond to my statement.
The fact is that there still a lot of film users, and many who are
purchasing new film cameras. THE ISSUE IS NOT WHETHER DIGITAL USERS
OUTNUMBER FILM USERS, WE ARE NOT EVEN DISCUSSING WHETHER DIGITAL IS
SUPERIOR TO FILM.

That article simply indicates that there are a lot of film users out
there. Whether the statements contained in it are right or wrong is
irrelevant to the point.

--
PeterN
  #15  
Old June 4th 18, 03:54 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
PeterN[_7_]
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Posts: 1,161
Default End Of An Era:

On 6/4/2018 6:51 AM, Mike Headon wrote:

snip


And nobody has mentioned - it's fun!
I use my four film cameras regularly (I broke theÂ* FT2 - at least I
tried to fix it and made it worse). But I wouldn't be without the DSLR
and smart phone.


Fun, creativity, and personal preference, are irrelevant. Digital is
better, and you are an idiot if you don't use digital. //end sarcasm tag.
--
PeterN
  #16  
Old June 4th 18, 04:01 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
PeterN[_7_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,161
Default End Of An Era:

On 6/4/2018 6:54 AM, Scott Schuckert wrote:
In article , nospam
wrote:

meanwhile, billions of digital photos are taken every day and uploaded
to various online services, nearly all of which with smartphones. more
than one *trillion* photos were taken in 2017.


Shall we talk Scotsmen? One could say the vast majority of cell phone
images are what we used to call "snapshots" - images, true, but taken
with no consideration of composition, and all the technical details
left to automation.


According to at least one person here, automation does a better job than
any human. It should be noted that this same individual, also argues
that automated cars are safer than human driven cars: But also argues
that when necessary elements of care automation are implemented, humans
can do it better. I take his undocumented opinions as being worth what
we pay him for them.

--
PeterN
  #17  
Old June 4th 18, 04:07 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
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Posts: 24,165
Default End Of An Era:

In article , PeterN
wrote:


According to at least one person here, automation does a better job than
any human. It should be noted that this same individual, also argues
that automated cars are safer than human driven cars: But also argues
that when necessary elements of care automation are implemented, humans
can do it better. I take his undocumented opinions as being worth what
we pay him for them.


that's a gross misrepresentation of what i've said.

the fact that you resort to lying about it says a lot.
  #18  
Old June 5th 18, 12:00 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
PeterN[_7_]
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Posts: 1,161
Default End Of An Era:

On 6/4/2018 11:07 AM, nospam wrote:
In article , PeterN
wrote:


According to at least one person here, automation does a better job than
any human. It should be noted that this same individual, also argues
that automated cars are safer than human driven cars: But also argues
that when necessary elements of care automation are implemented, humans
can do it better. I take his undocumented opinions as being worth what
we pay him for them.


that's a gross misrepresentation of what i've said.


Not even worth answering.



the fact that you resort to lying about it says a lot.



Your asinine statement was that there are one or two who shoot film.
That is the only issue. Your statement stating that is not true. When I
showed that you are wrong, you typically resorted to a personal insult.
I wonder whether you are taking lessons from Donald Trump, or whether he
takes lessons from you.


--
PeterN
  #19  
Old June 5th 18, 02:13 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
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Posts: 24,165
Default End Of An Era:

In article , PeterN
wrote:

According to at least one person here, automation does a better job than
any human. It should be noted that this same individual, also argues
that automated cars are safer than human driven cars: But also argues
that when necessary elements of care automation are implemented, humans
can do it better. I take his undocumented opinions as being worth what
we pay him for them.


that's a gross misrepresentation of what i've said.


Not even worth answering.


thereby admitting that's exactly what you did.

the fact that you resort to lying about it says a lot.


Your asinine statement was that there are one or two who shoot film.
That is the only issue. Your statement stating that is not true.


only an idiot would think that was to be taken literally.

When I
showed that you are wrong, you typically resorted to a personal insult.


nope. it was *you* who resorted to insults, as usual.

I wonder whether you are taking lessons from Donald Trump, or whether he
takes lessons from you.


clearly, he takes lessons from me.

i told him to fire james comey, and he did.

i told him to stop using film cameras, and he did.

i told him to stop going to mcdonald's so much, but that one will take
a bit more effort. he's not really into quinoa and tofu.
  #20  
Old June 5th 18, 10:20 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Eric Stevens
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Posts: 13,611
Default End Of An Era:

On Mon, 04 Jun 2018 21:13:25 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article , PeterN
wrote:

According to at least one person here, automation does a better job than
any human. It should be noted that this same individual, also argues
that automated cars are safer than human driven cars: But also argues
that when necessary elements of care automation are implemented, humans
can do it better. I take his undocumented opinions as being worth what
we pay him for them.

that's a gross misrepresentation of what i've said.


Not even worth answering.


thereby admitting that's exactly what you did.

the fact that you resort to lying about it says a lot.


Your asinine statement was that there are one or two who shoot film.
That is the only issue. Your statement stating that is not true.


only an idiot would think that was to be taken literally.


You frequently take things literally ...

When I
showed that you are wrong, you typically resorted to a personal insult.


nope. it was *you* who resorted to insults, as usual.

I wonder whether you are taking lessons from Donald Trump, or whether he
takes lessons from you.


clearly, he takes lessons from me.

i told him to fire james comey, and he did.

i told him to stop using film cameras, and he did.

i told him to stop going to mcdonald's so much, but that one will take
a bit more effort. he's not really into quinoa and tofu.

--

Regards,

Eric Stevens
 




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