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Does smartphone angle of view depend only on focal length?



 
 
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  #51  
Old January 4th 19, 01:53 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24,165
Default Does smartphone angle of view depend only on focal length?

In article , Ken Hart
wrote:

put another way, in the time it takes you to go to a store, buy a roll
of film, shoot some photos and then go back to that store and have it
processed, roughly a billion digital photos will have been taken.


Of course, the bulk of those digital photos will be crap.


so what? and that's not any different than the bulk of film photos.

what matters is that the number of film photos, as well as film sales,
is basically zero, and it won't be that long until it really is zero.

and overall, those digital photos will be much better than the crap
that came out of film cameras, especially from those disposable things.

If you only
have 24 or 36 chances to get it right, you tend to be more careful to
get it right.


that is one of the biggest myths, and you aren't the final arbiter of
what is right or wrong anyway.

(I don't have to go to the store for a roll of film- I buy several
bricks at a time and keep it in the film freezer. And I don't have to go
back to the store for processing- the C41 darkroom is fifteen feet away.)


you still have to make the initial purchase for the bricks and pay for
the electricity to keep them frozen, plus the darkroom processing takes
a substantial amount of time.

you're grasping at straws. and failing.
  #52  
Old January 4th 19, 04:24 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Eric Stevens
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Posts: 13,611
Default Does smartphone angle of view depend only on focal length?

On Thu, 03 Jan 2019 18:53:31 -0500, nospam
wrote:

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:


"35mm cameras" are not digital.

they are now.

The "35mm" part refers to a film size.

originally, it did, but now that film is dead, it refers to the camera.

There are digital cameras that are "35mm form factor", "35mm style(d)",
"dSLR", and many other similar terms. But a (common) digital camera does
not use 35mm film, therefore, it is not a "35mm camera". A "35mm camera"
is a camera that uses 35mm film.

it obviously refers to the form factor, not the non-existent and no
longer relevant film size.


Even that is bull**** (on several levels).


not at all.

DSLRs of today are heavier
and more bulky than their eqivalents of the past.


nonsense. they're comparable in size & weight, with digital slrs often
smaller and lighter in weight than film slrs.


Not with a sensor of the same size as the image frame in a 35mm film
camera.

you're also ignoring the bulk of all the film one needs to carry (and
keeping it cool if necessary), versus a memory card, or more recently,
sync to the cloud and no memory card (i.e., unlimited photos, something
not possible with film).

They in no way share
the same form factor.


they most certainly do.


I have owned a few of each and I know you are wrong.

film nikon n90:
https://www.keh.com/media/catalog/pr...800x/040ec09b1
e35df139433887a97daa66f/2/4/247143-2149015_01.jpg

digital nikon d40:
https://www.keh.com/media/catalog/pr...800x/040ec09b1
e35df139433887a97daa66f/2/0/208784-2177935_01.jpg

not only do they look nearly identical, but they accept the same
lenses. in fact, the nikon d40 will accept the old nikon non-ai lenses
without issue, which the n90 cannot. in other words, *more* lenses.

and for an even closer match, there is the nikon df:
https://keyassets.timeincuk.net/insp.../uploads/sites
/12/2014/01/Nikon_Df_front-538x500.jpg
https://keyassets.timeincuk.net/insp.../uploads/sites
/12/2014/01/Nikon_Df_top-593x500.jpg

And I can buy several makes of 35mm film from a
number of outlets within a few miles from me. It is not
"non-existent".


compared to digital, it very definitely is:
https://petapixel.com/assets/uploads/2017/03/cameraproductionchart.jpg

be sure to zoom in, or just look at the relevant portion:
https://petapixel.com/assets/uploads/2017/03/camerasalesfeat.jpg

as i said before, calling it a round-off error would make film seem
bigger than it actually is.

put another way, in the time it takes you to go to a store, buy a roll
of film, shoot some photos and then go back to that store and have it
processed, roughly a billion digital photos will have been taken.

--

Regards,

Eric Stevens
  #53  
Old January 4th 19, 04:26 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Eric Stevens
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Posts: 13,611
Default Does smartphone angle of view depend only on focal length?

On Thu, 03 Jan 2019 19:53:23 -0500, nospam
wrote:

In article , Ken Hart
wrote:

put another way, in the time it takes you to go to a store, buy a roll
of film, shoot some photos and then go back to that store and have it
processed, roughly a billion digital photos will have been taken.


Of course, the bulk of those digital photos will be crap.


so what? and that's not any different than the bulk of film photos.

what matters is that the number of film photos, as well as film sales,
is basically zero, and it won't be that long until it really is zero.

and overall, those digital photos will be much better than the crap
that came out of film cameras, especially from those disposable things.

If you only
have 24 or 36 chances to get it right, you tend to be more careful to
get it right.


that is one of the biggest myths, and you aren't the final arbiter of
what is right or wrong anyway.

(I don't have to go to the store for a roll of film- I buy several
bricks at a time and keep it in the film freezer. And I don't have to go
back to the store for processing- the C41 darkroom is fifteen feet away.)


you still have to make the initial purchase for the bricks and pay for
the electricity to keep them frozen, plus the darkroom processing takes
a substantial amount of time.

you're grasping at straws. and failing.


You are rambling, floundering, talking abou anything but the original
topic of this subthread.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens
  #54  
Old January 4th 19, 05:53 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24,165
Default Does smartphone angle of view depend only on focal length?

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

put another way, in the time it takes you to go to a store, buy a roll
of film, shoot some photos and then go back to that store and have it
processed, roughly a billion digital photos will have been taken.

Of course, the bulk of those digital photos will be crap.


so what? and that's not any different than the bulk of film photos.

what matters is that the number of film photos, as well as film sales,
is basically zero, and it won't be that long until it really is zero.

and overall, those digital photos will be much better than the crap
that came out of film cameras, especially from those disposable things.

If you only
have 24 or 36 chances to get it right, you tend to be more careful to
get it right.


that is one of the biggest myths, and you aren't the final arbiter of
what is right or wrong anyway.

(I don't have to go to the store for a roll of film- I buy several
bricks at a time and keep it in the film freezer. And I don't have to go
back to the store for processing- the C41 darkroom is fifteen feet away.)


you still have to make the initial purchase for the bricks and pay for
the electricity to keep them frozen, plus the darkroom processing takes
a substantial amount of time.

you're grasping at straws. and failing.


You are rambling, floundering, talking abou anything but the original
topic of this subthread.


it ain't me who is floundering.
  #55  
Old January 4th 19, 05:53 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24,165
Default Does smartphone angle of view depend only on focal length?

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:


DSLRs of today are heavier
and more bulky than their eqivalents of the past.


nonsense. they're comparable in size & weight, with digital slrs often
smaller and lighter in weight than film slrs.


Not with a sensor of the same size as the image frame in a 35mm film
camera.


yes with a sensor of the same size.

however, keep in mind that a sensor of the same size as 35mm film will
produce dramatically better image quality, comparable to medium format
film, while an slr with a smaller dx sensor will produce better results
than a camera that uses 35mm film.

thus, for a given image quality, digital cameras are *smaller* and for
a given sensor/film size, both cameras are about the same physical
size, with digital producing much better results. either way, digital
wins.

below are some numbers.

note that the f5 weight is listed *without* batteries, while the d5 is
*with* battery, so an appropriate adjustment was made. the d750 lists
weights with and without battery, so the battery weight was added to
the f100 to compare both.

the size differences are all very minor (under 0.6", at the *most*).

i'm not sure why the dimensions and weight are approximate. you'd think
nikon could somehow manage to get exact numbers.

nikon f5 slr:
https://www.nikonusa.com/en/nikon-pr...e/film-cameras
/f5.html#tab-ProductDetail-ProductTabs-TechSpecs
Power Source: Eight AA-type batteries or optional Ni-MH Battery Unit
MN-30
Weight (without batteries): Approx. 42.7 oz
Dimensions (WxHxD): 6.2 x 5.9 x 3.1 inches

nikon d5 digital slr:
https://www.nikonusa.com/en/nikon-pr...ameras/d5.html
#tab-ProductDetail-ProductTabs-TechSpecs
Approx. Dimensions (Width x Height x Depth) 6.3 in. (160 mm) x 6.3
in. (158.5 mm) x 3.7 in. (92 mm)
Approx. Weight 49.6 oz. (1,405 g) with battery and two XQD memory
cards but without body cap and accessory shoe cover
49.9 oz. (1,415 g) with battery and two CompactFlash memory cards
but without body cap and accessory shoe cover

the nikon f6 uses *eight* aa batteries, and at 1.1 oz each (for nimh,
the most likely type), will add an additional 8.8 ounces, for a total
of 51.5 oz. for alkaline batteries, it would be an additional 6.4 oz, a
total of 49.1 oz, just 0.5 oz lighter, which is not noticeable.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AA_battery#Dimensions

here's another comparison:

nikon f100 film slr:
https://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/filmcamera/slr/f100/spec.htm
Power source AA-size battery holder MS-12 provided (four alkaline or
lithium batteries
Dimensions (W x H x D) Approx. 155 x 113 x 66mm (6.1 x 4.4 x 2.6 in.)
Weight (body only without batteries) Approx. 785g (27.7 oz.)

nikon d750 digital slr:
https://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/dslr/d750/spec.htm
Dimensions (W x H x D) Approx. 140.5 x 113 x 78 mm/5.6 x 4.5 x 3.1 in.
Weight Approx. 840 g/1 lb 13.7 oz with battery and memory card but
without body cap; approx. 750 g/1 lb 10.5 oz (camera body only)

the d750 is narrower, same height, and slightly thicker due to the rear
display and buttons, obviously required for any digital camera.

without batteries, the d750 weights less (750g v. 785g), as it does
with batteries (840g v. 877g, using four alkaline aa batteries @ 23g
each, as per nikon recommendation). not a significant difference,
certainly nothing anyone would notice without using a scale. with
lithium batteries, it would be almost the same.

you're also ignoring the bulk of all the film one needs to carry (and
keeping it cool if necessary), versus a memory card, or more recently,
sync to the cloud and no memory card (i.e., unlimited photos, something
not possible with film).


^^ you keep ignoring this part ^^

They in no way share
the same form factor.


they most certainly do.


I have owned a few of each and I know you are wrong.


i'm not wrong. see above and below.

film nikon n90:
https://www.keh.com/media/catalog/pr...800x/040ec09b1
e35df139433887a97daa66f/2/4/247143-2149015_01.jpg

digital nikon d40:
https://www.keh.com/media/catalog/pr...800x/040ec09b1
e35df139433887a97daa66f/2/0/208784-2177935_01.jpg


those are very clearly sharing the same form factor, known as a 35mm
slr body.

the differences are so minor that it requires close scrutiny to see
what they are.
  #56  
Old January 4th 19, 09:51 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Eric Stevens
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,611
Default Does smartphone angle of view depend only on focal length?

On Thu, 03 Jan 2019 23:53:25 -0500, nospam
wrote:

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

put another way, in the time it takes you to go to a store, buy a roll
of film, shoot some photos and then go back to that store and have it
processed, roughly a billion digital photos will have been taken.

Of course, the bulk of those digital photos will be crap.

so what? and that's not any different than the bulk of film photos.

what matters is that the number of film photos, as well as film sales,
is basically zero, and it won't be that long until it really is zero.

and overall, those digital photos will be much better than the crap
that came out of film cameras, especially from those disposable things.

If you only
have 24 or 36 chances to get it right, you tend to be more careful to
get it right.

that is one of the biggest myths, and you aren't the final arbiter of
what is right or wrong anyway.

(I don't have to go to the store for a roll of film- I buy several
bricks at a time and keep it in the film freezer. And I don't have to go
back to the store for processing- the C41 darkroom is fifteen feet away.)

you still have to make the initial purchase for the bricks and pay for
the electricity to keep them frozen, plus the darkroom processing takes
a substantial amount of time.

you're grasping at straws. and failing.


You are rambling, floundering, talking abou anything but the original
topic of this subthread.


it ain't me who is floundering.


See
https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.town...size=600%2C339
or http://tinyurl.com/ydb8dmge
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens
  #57  
Old January 7th 19, 08:44 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
PeterN[_7_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,161
Default Does smartphone angle of view depend only on focal length?

On 1/2/2019 6:51 PM, Ken Hart wrote:
On 1/2/19 8:25 AM, nospam wrote:
In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

Â*From the current Nikon web site
https://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/filmcamera/index.htm or

https://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/filmcamera/slr/f6/

those may exist, but almost none are sold or even manufactured.

I wasn't pointing to sales. I was drawing your attention to word
usage.

you missed the part about digital now being the default.

In your heavy snippage (which you have not indicated) you deleted my
question "Which has what to do with 35mm cameras?"

So, I ask you again, which has what to do with 35mm cameras?


because they're now digital.


"35mm cameras" are not digital. The "35mm" part refers to a film size.
There are digital cameras that are "35mm form factor", "35mm style(d)",
"dSLR", and many other similar terms. But a (common) digital camera does
not use 35mm film, therefore, it is not a "35mm camera". A "35mm camera"
is a camera that uses 35mm film.

You have been directed to dozens of websites from major photo retailers
and manufacturers, and all of them make a distinction between "35mm
cameras" and digital cameras that may look like the 'classic' 35mm film
camera.

The unwashed masses may consider all cameras to be digital. But among
photography professionals (and knowledgeable amateurs), film still
exists, and cameras that use 35 millimeter film are 35mm cameras.

Speaking of the "unwashed masses"- Available for immediate pickup at the
local WalMart are the following:
-- Fujifilm Quicksnap 800 Waterproof 35mm Disposable Camera - 27
Exposures, $9.49
-- Fujifilm Disposable 35mm Camera With Flash, 2 Pack, $13.09
-- Fujifilm One Time Use 35mm Camera with Flash, $8.46
-- Three Roll pack SUPERIA 400 36EX film, $12.99.

If you search for "digital cameras" at WalMart, they are all referred to
as "digital" cameras; some as "digital SLR", and some as "DSLR". Not a
one of them is called a "35mm camera", even those that are "35mm form
factor", such as Canon EOS digital, and Nikon D7200 digital.

Clearly, there is a distinction between a "35mm (film) camera" and a
digital camera. Whether you (nospam) accept it or not.



Trying to explain that to hi is a waste of pixels.
--
PeterN
  #58  
Old January 7th 19, 09:26 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Alan Browne[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 696
Default Does smartphone angle of view depend only on focal length?

On 2019-01-02 18:51, Ken Hart wrote:
On 1/2/19 8:25 AM, nospam wrote:
In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

Â*From the current Nikon web site
https://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/filmcamera/index.htm or

https://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/filmcamera/slr/f6/

those may exist, but almost none are sold or even manufactured.

I wasn't pointing to sales. I was drawing your attention to word
usage.

you missed the part about digital now being the default.

In your heavy snippage (which you have not indicated) you deleted my
question "Which has what to do with 35mm cameras?"

So, I ask you again, which has what to do with 35mm cameras?


because they're now digital.


"35mm ca


snipped all the obvious pedantic boring crud

Facts are all my 35mm lenses work with my digital (and film) bodies
whether 'cropped' or full frame. Getting your panties in a wad over it
is a waste of everyone's time on a digital photo newsgroup.

--
"2/3 of Donald Trump's wives were immigrants. Proof that we
need immigrants to do jobs that most Americans wouldn't do."
- unknown protester
 




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