Stupid Americans! -- Stupid... Stupid... STUPID!!! _____________ ovywfuju

wrote in message
...
You blithering idiots! You re-elected that imbecile George Bush as your
President.
He’s a complete moron and so are most of you!
-
Don’t you care what the rest of the world thinks of you?

Yes.....I just don't care what you think of me.......

The
evidence is coming out that the black box voting machines were the
deciding factor. In those states without them the exit polls agreed
with the results. In Florida and Ohio where they use the
machines...the exit polls put Kerry ahead...but the machines gave it
to Bush. Keep up with this a blackboxvoting.org or something like
that.
Now that's interesting!
Cites?
Here in Canada we use paper ballots and I see no reason why the USA cannot
do the same!.
A federal election is over (from the droppng of the 'writ' to the final
tally) in 90 days. From the closing of the polls to the declaration of a
winner is a matter of hours, not days. Lawyers or courts have NO say.
Governments here are NOT given four years free reign!
If the party in power does not live up to it's promises it is gone - right
quick!
Sure, it ain't perfect. Sure we would like to see more transparancy and sure
there is a lot of room for improvement. Sure, there are always a few
ridings that are so close that a re-count is called for but those are the
exception. We try to eliminate wealth from the electoral process - "try", I
say - not that we have been entirely successful.
No system of government that any nation has ever tried has been perfect! We
just do the best that we can. And, in my humble opinion, Canada does it
better than most.
We feel for our brothers to the South! Not only does their system seem to
damage them and their reputation it also damages the world. Sadly, the
American super economy gives the impression that somehow *it* is in charge
when, in fact, it is merely holding on to the "tiger's tail'.
Geez - Just tried to reply to a simple post and now I have written a
'philosophy of politics' 101.
Sorry guys - I know this is way off topic and I will stop now.
Loe to you all.
Ken.


http://www.rupert.net/~solar
Return address supplied by 'spammotel'
http://www.spammotel.com

"Ken Davey" writes:

Here in Canada we use paper ballots and I see no reason why the USA cannot
do the same!.

Well, the USA does seem to have a lot more questions to vote on in a
single election.

In a federal election in Canada, you pick one of the candidates for your
riding and that may be it. Takes a few seconds to vote, and not much
more to count - even if the counting is done by hand. Municipal
elections may be a bit longer, with some referendum questions, but are
still probably 2 or 3 pages at most.

I remember reading some elections chief in some state saying that the
absentee ballot for that state would be 19 pages long. Even with people
voting on electronic touch screens, they expected each voter to take 5
minutes. With all these questions, hand-counting the ballots after an
election would take a lot longer than it does in Canada.

Still, I do wonder why there seems to be so little concern about the
trustworthiness of the electronic voting machines. And the Electoral
College seems just plain weird to an outside observer.

Dave

On Mon, 8 Nov 2004 08:41:03 +0000 (UTC), (Dave
Martindale) wrote:

"Ken Davey" writes:

Here in Canada we use paper ballots and I see no reason why the USA cannot
do the same!.
Across the border, but still up here in the North :-)) Michigan, or
parts there of, still used paper ballots.

Well, the USA does seem to have a lot more questions to vote on in a
single election.

In a federal election in Canada, you pick one of the candidates for your
riding and that may be it. Takes a few seconds to vote, and not much
more to count - even if the counting is done by hand. Municipal
elections may be a bit longer, with some referendum questions, but are
still probably 2 or 3 pages at most.

I remember reading some elections chief in some state saying that the
absentee ballot for that state would be 19 pages long. Even with people

Those pages are large print and only have a few selections for the
voter.

voting on electronic touch screens, they expected each voter to take 5

It took me less than that with paper (punch card). These can be read
by computer, but hand counted as well as per the infamous hanging and
pregnant chads in Florida 4 years ago.

minutes. With all these questions, hand-counting the ballots after an
election would take a lot longer than it does in Canada.

Hand counting would take considerably longer, or much larger
election/voting boards. I remember as a kid, my dad counting ballots
until the wee hours of the morning and that was for a small, rural
township.


Still, I do wonder why there seems to be so little concern about the
trustworthiness of the electronic voting machines. And the Electoral

There is a lot of concern but it comes from those of us whose
profession is computers, or computer science. Those implementing, or
wishing to implement computer voting seem to have no idea as to the
shortcomings of the current systems, or potential for errors or
untraceable out fraud.

College seems just plain weird to an outside observer.

There has been a lot of talk about going strictly by popular vote and
abolishing the electoral college. Some say it has outlived its time,
but... only time will tell.

Roger

Dave

"Dave Martindale" wrote in message
...
"Ken Davey" writes:

Here in Canada we use paper ballots and I see no reason why the USA cannot
do the same!.

Well, the USA does seem to have a lot more questions to vote on in a
single election.

In a federal election in Canada, you pick one of the candidates for your
riding and that may be it. Takes a few seconds to vote, and not much
more to count - even if the counting is done by hand. Municipal
elections may be a bit longer, with some referendum questions, but are
still probably 2 or 3 pages at most.

I remember reading some elections chief in some state saying that the
absentee ballot for that state would be 19 pages long. Even with people
voting on electronic touch screens, they expected each voter to take 5
minutes. With all these questions, hand-counting the ballots after an
election would take a lot longer than it does in Canada.

Still, I do wonder why there seems to be so little concern about the
trustworthiness of the electronic voting machines. And the Electoral
College seems just plain weird to an outside observer.

Dave

Here in Oregon, we vote by mail on a normal sheet of paper. I don't know if
the results are machine read or not, but they could always be counted by
hand, even if they are. I personally voted about a week before the 2nd of
November, but the Oregon election board doesn't release any results until
election day, regardless of when they actually count the ballots. Other than
the burden it puts on the Post Office, I see nothing wrong with this way of
doing it, and the post office gets 37 cents each way, or 74 cents per
voter.....

"William Graham" wrote in message
news:sMUjd.9183$V41.4840@attbi_s52...

"Dave Martindale" wrote in message
...
Still, I do wonder why there seems to be so little concern about the
trustworthiness of the electronic voting machines. And the Electoral
College seems just plain weird to an outside observer.

Dave

Here in Oregon, we vote by mail on a normal sheet of paper. I don't know
if
the results are machine read or not, but they could always be counted by
hand, even if they are. I personally voted about a week before the 2nd of
November, but the Oregon election board doesn't release any results until
election day, regardless of when they actually count the ballots. Other
than
the burden it puts on the Post Office, I see nothing wrong with this way
of
doing it, and the post office gets 37 cents each way, or 74 cents per
voter.....

I gotta agree with you, vote by mail is simple and easy. We had a really
high voter turnout, too, something like 86% of registered voters actually
voted. They start counting as soon as the ballots start coming in, and if
there's a problem they can send it back with plenty of time to fix it. One
election several years ago I forgot to sign the back of my envelope, and it
was sent back to me. I've also heard reports of voters in the same household
getting their envelopes mixed up, and having them sent back because the
signatures didn't match. The election officials have more time to process
the votes, and can take the extra time to be more through. I don't know why
more states haven't switched to vote by mail.

Gloria

"Gloria Carr" wrote in message
ink.net...

"William Graham" wrote in message
news:sMUjd.9183$V41.4840@attbi_s52...

"Dave Martindale" wrote in message
...
Still, I do wonder why there seems to be so little concern about the
trustworthiness of the electronic voting machines. And the Electoral
College seems just plain weird to an outside observer.

Dave

Here in Oregon, we vote by mail on a normal sheet of paper. I don't know
if
the results are machine read or not, but they could always be counted by
hand, even if they are. I personally voted about a week before the 2nd of
November, but the Oregon election board doesn't release any results until
election day, regardless of when they actually count the ballots. Other
than
the burden it puts on the Post Office, I see nothing wrong with this way
of
doing it, and the post office gets 37 cents each way, or 74 cents per
voter.....

I gotta agree with you, vote by mail is simple and easy. We had a really
high voter turnout, too, something like 86% of registered voters actually
voted. They start counting as soon as the ballots start coming in, and if
there's a problem they can send it back with plenty of time to fix it. One
election several years ago I forgot to sign the back of my envelope, and
it
was sent back to me. I've also heard reports of voters in the same
household
getting their envelopes mixed up, and having them sent back because the
signatures didn't match. The election officials have more time to process
the votes, and can take the extra time to be more through. I don't know
why
more states haven't switched to vote by mail.

Gloria


Sure there's a good turnout, since there's no waiting in line....the ballot
box is as close as your nearest mailbox. The only bad thing about living and
voting here in Oregon is that everyone else except me is a Democrat....:^)

"William Graham" wrote in message
news:eiXjd.9829$V41.4855@attbi_s52...

"Gloria Carr" wrote in message
ink.net...

"William Graham" wrote in message
news:sMUjd.9183$V41.4840@attbi_s52...

"Dave Martindale" wrote in message
...
Still, I do wonder why there seems to be so little concern about the
trustworthiness of the electronic voting machines. And the Electoral
College seems just plain weird to an outside observer.

Dave

Here in Oregon, we vote by mail on a normal sheet of paper. I don't
know
if
the results are machine read or not, but they could always be counted
by
hand, even if they are. I personally voted about a week before the 2nd
of
November, but the Oregon election board doesn't release any results
until
election day, regardless of when they actually count the ballots. Other
than
the burden it puts on the Post Office, I see nothing wrong with this
way
of
doing it, and the post office gets 37 cents each way, or 74 cents per
voter.....

I gotta agree with you, vote by mail is simple and easy. We had a really
high voter turnout, too, something like 86% of registered voters
actually
voted. They start counting as soon as the ballots start coming in, and
if
there's a problem they can send it back with plenty of time to fix it.
One
election several years ago I forgot to sign the back of my envelope, and
it
was sent back to me. I've also heard reports of voters in the same
household
getting their envelopes mixed up, and having them sent back because the
signatures didn't match. The election officials have more time to
process
the votes, and can take the extra time to be more through. I don't know
why
more states haven't switched to vote by mail.

Gloria


Sure there's a good turnout, since there's no waiting in line....the
ballot
box is as close as your nearest mailbox. The only bad thing about living
and
voting here in Oregon is that everyone else except me is a Democrat....:^)

Whether or not that's a bad thing depends on which side of the isle you sit.
LOL

Gloria

"Gloria Carr" wrote in message
hlink.net...

"William Graham" wrote in message
news:eiXjd.9829$V41.4855@attbi_s52...

"Gloria Carr" wrote in message
ink.net...

"William Graham" wrote in message
news:sMUjd.9183$V41.4840@attbi_s52...

"Dave Martindale" wrote in message
...
Still, I do wonder why there seems to be so little concern about
the
trustworthiness of the electronic voting machines. And the
Electoral
College seems just plain weird to an outside observer.

Dave

Here in Oregon, we vote by mail on a normal sheet of paper. I don't
know
if
the results are machine read or not, but they could always be counted
by
hand, even if they are. I personally voted about a week before the 2nd
of
November, but the Oregon election board doesn't release any results
until
election day, regardless of when they actually count the ballots.
Other
than
the burden it puts on the Post Office, I see nothing wrong with this
way
of
doing it, and the post office gets 37 cents each way, or 74 cents per
voter.....

I gotta agree with you, vote by mail is simple and easy. We had a
really
high voter turnout, too, something like 86% of registered voters
actually
voted. They start counting as soon as the ballots start coming in, and
if
there's a problem they can send it back with plenty of time to fix it.
One
election several years ago I forgot to sign the back of my envelope,
and
it
was sent back to me. I've also heard reports of voters in the same
household
getting their envelopes mixed up, and having them sent back because the
signatures didn't match. The election officials have more time to
process
the votes, and can take the extra time to be more through. I don't know
why
more states haven't switched to vote by mail.

Gloria


Sure there's a good turnout, since there's no waiting in line....the
ballot
box is as close as your nearest mailbox. The only bad thing about living
and
voting here in Oregon is that everyone else except me is a
Democrat....:^)

Whether or not that's a bad thing depends on which side of the isle you
sit.
LOL

Gloria


True, but I forgot to add that it means that I am effectively
disenfranchised, at least as far as the presidential race is concerned....I
have voted Republican all of my life, and my vote has never been worth a
tinkers Damn, because I have lived in California or Oregon all of my voting
life.....This is the only bad thing about our electoral college
system........

"Gloria Carr" wrote in message
hlink.net...

"William Graham" wrote in message
news:eiXjd.9829$V41.4855@attbi_s52...

"Gloria Carr" wrote in message
ink.net...

"William Graham" wrote in message
news:sMUjd.9183$V41.4840@attbi_s52...

"Dave Martindale" wrote in message
...
Still, I do wonder why there seems to be so little concern about
the
trustworthiness of the electronic voting machines. And the
Electoral
College seems just plain weird to an outside observer.

Dave

Here in Oregon, we vote by mail on a normal sheet of paper. I don't
know
if
the results are machine read or not, but they could always be counted
by
hand, even if they are. I personally voted about a week before the 2nd
of
November, but the Oregon election board doesn't release any results
until
election day, regardless of when they actually count the ballots.
Other
than
the burden it puts on the Post Office, I see nothing wrong with this
way
of
doing it, and the post office gets 37 cents each way, or 74 cents per
voter.....

I gotta agree with you, vote by mail is simple and easy. We had a
really
high voter turnout, too, something like 86% of registered voters
actually
voted. They start counting as soon as the ballots start coming in, and
if
there's a problem they can send it back with plenty of time to fix it.
One
election several years ago I forgot to sign the back of my envelope,
and
it
was sent back to me. I've also heard reports of voters in the same
household
getting their envelopes mixed up, and having them sent back because the
signatures didn't match. The election officials have more time to
process
the votes, and can take the extra time to be more through. I don't know
why
more states haven't switched to vote by mail.

Gloria


Sure there's a good turnout, since there's no waiting in line....the
ballot
box is as close as your nearest mailbox. The only bad thing about living
and
voting here in Oregon is that everyone else except me is a
Democrat....:^)

Whether or not that's a bad thing depends on which side of the isle you
sit.
LOL

Gloria


True, but I forgot to add that it means that I am effectively
disenfranchised, at least as far as the presidential race is concerned....I
have voted Republican all of my life, and my vote has never been worth a
tinkers Damn, because I have lived in California or Oregon all of my voting
life.....This is the only bad thing about our electoral college
system........