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#11
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Hi Born Loser
I can't be assed reading all this stuff and the other posts If you prefer 35mm or medium format = hey fine with me dewd, live it up FWIW I find I have to replace my socks far too frequently these days. They were first blasted off when me an me m8s went mountain hinking The one with a didgicam had results burned to CD and displayed on widescreen TV using a DVD burner once we got back to base camp 1 I had my rolls of 35mm tucked up safely away somewhere Blew socks off I then bought my own compact digicam = Blew socks off I then took up a 30-day free trial of Adobe Photoshop CS = Blew socks off If any1 discovers some socks innocently blowing in the wind. Please post a notice here - they may be mine :-) But it is a big worls and conversion I seek not - if you luv it dewd, do it and be good at it have phun Arty "Born Loser" wrote in message om... Hello rec.photo.digital. members. I am a newbie and hope you can help me. After many years of 35mm SLR experience as a hobbyist, I am about to buy my first digital camera. Although I haven't ruled out one of the current 8 MP models, at this time I have my eyes on the Olympus 765. Quite frankly, I am tired of lugging around five pounds of SLR, lens, and flash around my neck. That's why a camera like the 765 appeals to me. However, after reading and surfin' numerous publications and web sites, including (but certainly not limited to) Pop Photo, Consumer Reports, dpreview.com, steves-digicams.com, I have come to the following conclusion. This is where I hope you guys can set me straight. HYPOTHESIS: DIGITAL CAMERA'S DO NOT PERFORM AS WELL AS COMPRABLE 35mm CAMERAS for the following reasons: NOISE: Almost every camera review I've read discussed chromatic abberations/purple fringing (especially in the current crop of 8 MP's), moire distortions (especially in DSLR's) and unacceptable noise levels at ISO's above 100 in all but the most expensive DSLR's (you need an awful lot of light to shoot below ISO 100) . Less than accurate color reproduction creeps in every so often as well. Are these distortions as serious and common in every shot as they sound? PERFORMANCE: Again, almost every camera review I've read and all the camera's I've checked-out at the local stores seem to have a performance lag in terms of shutter speed, readiness for the next shot and the screen/EVF blanking out for what seems like a long time (I'm sure it really isn't). The speed with which photos can be taken with digital seems considerably slower than 35mm. RESOLUTION: I understand that one cannot make a direct comparison between digital and 35mm cameras in terms of resolution. I have read a source that did just that claiming that 35mm camera's (as a group) have a 30 MP equivelant. Although the difference between 30 MP and 4, 5, or 8 MP's may not (due to mathematics and technology) literally translate into 4, 6 or 8 times the resolution, the difference has to count towards quality in some way. QUESTION: So here is my question. How accurate are the above observations? The reviews I've read often rate the camera highly but the above problems always seem to creep into the review. This suggests that the current crop of digitals are continously getting better, but in some respects, are still not completely there. If I buy a digital camera (other other than a DSLR) how are my pictures going to stand-up to 35mm? Am I wrong to believe that I will be limited to ISO's of 100 or below, one frame every three or five seconds, observable distortions even in 4x6 and 8x10 prints, etc.? What's the inside scoop concerning the upcoming 7 MP cameras and, I assume, revised and updated 8 MP's? I thank you in advance for your assistance in this matter and hope to post more once I get off the ground with digital |
#12
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I have found that the prints made from my Olympus D590Z, even
at 8x10 (though I usually print these at 4X5, or two to a sheet of paper) are as good as what I remember getting from my Nikon FA using 200-400 ASA print film. I now have an Olympus C5050, havn't used it enough to make any comments, but this camera should be much improved over the older P&S model! Note that I'm NOT a professional photographer, just a hobby user who takes his camera on trips with the family like everyone else. Clearly digital cameras are now good enough to replace 110 and 35mm point and shoot cameras, and low end 35mm SLR's. As for pro 35mm cameras, they are (or will soon be) and indangered species as digicams get better. I doubt that medium format and plate film view cameras will EVER be replaced by digital, but these have always been the field of a very few professional (and dedicated!) group. |
#13
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I have found that the prints made from my Olympus D590Z, even
at 8x10 (though I usually print these at 4X5, or two to a sheet of paper) are as good as what I remember getting from my Nikon FA using 200-400 ASA print film. I now have an Olympus C5050, havn't used it enough to make any comments, but this camera should be much improved over the older P&S model! Note that I'm NOT a professional photographer, just a hobby user who takes his camera on trips with the family like everyone else. Clearly digital cameras are now good enough to replace 110 and 35mm point and shoot cameras, and low end 35mm SLR's. As for pro 35mm cameras, they are (or will soon be) and indangered species as digicams get better. I doubt that medium format and plate film view cameras will EVER be replaced by digital, but these have always been the field of a very few professional (and dedicated!) group. |
#14
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"Born Loser" wrote in message
om... NOISE: You can push film further than digital, but also at the cost of much noise. Chromatic aberration is said to be worse with digital - but it varies from camera to camera and over the range of focal lengths. I rarely notice any with my Canon S30 with 3:1 zoom. My guess is that most quality digitals will produce images that look as good as film unless a) shooting conditions are extreme, or b) blowups are extreme. PERFORMANCE: There are four numbers of interest: 1. Time between camera on and camera ready. The cameras typically store the lens in a compressed position that has to be opened. The longer the lens, the longer this takes. Long lens cameras can take 5 seconds. Short lens cameras can take 2-3 seconds. Fixed lens cameras can be very quick. 2. Time to focus and set exposure. One second more or less, is not uncommon. Auto- everything film cameras have a similar lag. 3. Time to take the shot after setting exposure. Typically, you can press the button half way down to get focus and exposure set. Then watch and, at the right moment, press the rest of the way. The lag there is often in the range of 0.1 to 0.3 seconds. Some are faster. 0.1 or 0.2 aren't bad, even for action shots, but film cameras are faster. 4. Time between shots. The camera has to digitize the image and write it to the memory card. 2 seconds or so is not uncommon. Some cameras have a burst mode that allows you to accelerate this for short bursts, e.g., 5 shots in two seconds. For real high speed action photography, film has a decided advantage. For other cases, the photographer can generally do pretty well with digital by thinking out what he has to do. RESOLUTION: Except in expensive pro quality cameras, the light sensors have a smaller area than the film size of a 35mm camera. Therefore, for a given resolution in lines/mm, I would think the actual sharpness would have to be less in digital. However there are other factors limiting resolution, including the number of lines/mm that the film and/or the digital sensor will resolve. In practice you'd have to look at the images to see if the difference is perceptible to you. To my eye, digital images look very sharp. Note that, if resolution is critical, perfectionists will also stay away from 35mm, using larger film sizes instead. As for the 30MP equivalent of 35mm film, I find that very hard to believe. I saw a photo in Pop Photo from an 8mp camera that was clearly sharper than one taken on 35 mm film. CONCLUSIONS: You have listed all of the perceived disadvantages of digital as compared to film. I think some of them are real - though whether they are significant to you depends on what you shoot and what appeals to you. But you also need to consider the advantages of digital as compared to film. These include: No more film cost. No developing cost. No darkroom time and cost. Instant feedback on the LCD display of what your shot looks like. If you have a laptop with you, for example on a trip, you can see your images on the large screen each night instead of waiting until you get home and get them developed. No film loading in the field. A 256 MB card can take 280 or so 3 MP images before it has to be dumped out to a computer. No degradation of image quality over time (so long as you keep backing up your files.) No more physical boxes of negatives, contact sheets, or prints. A single 160 GB hard disk can store 160,000 1 MB digital images. A single CD can store 700 of them. Easy distribution. Post shot editing that goes miles beyond what anyone can do with film, and is orders of magnitude easier to do. When I was shooting film, I was very careful about not wasting film on shots that I wasn't sure would "come out" right. Now I shoot anything I want, whenever I want, knowing it doesn't cost me a penny. I suspect that, if you get a digital camera, you'll like it. Alan |
#15
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"Born Loser" wrote in message
om... NOISE: You can push film further than digital, but also at the cost of much noise. Chromatic aberration is said to be worse with digital - but it varies from camera to camera and over the range of focal lengths. I rarely notice any with my Canon S30 with 3:1 zoom. My guess is that most quality digitals will produce images that look as good as film unless a) shooting conditions are extreme, or b) blowups are extreme. PERFORMANCE: There are four numbers of interest: 1. Time between camera on and camera ready. The cameras typically store the lens in a compressed position that has to be opened. The longer the lens, the longer this takes. Long lens cameras can take 5 seconds. Short lens cameras can take 2-3 seconds. Fixed lens cameras can be very quick. 2. Time to focus and set exposure. One second more or less, is not uncommon. Auto- everything film cameras have a similar lag. 3. Time to take the shot after setting exposure. Typically, you can press the button half way down to get focus and exposure set. Then watch and, at the right moment, press the rest of the way. The lag there is often in the range of 0.1 to 0.3 seconds. Some are faster. 0.1 or 0.2 aren't bad, even for action shots, but film cameras are faster. 4. Time between shots. The camera has to digitize the image and write it to the memory card. 2 seconds or so is not uncommon. Some cameras have a burst mode that allows you to accelerate this for short bursts, e.g., 5 shots in two seconds. For real high speed action photography, film has a decided advantage. For other cases, the photographer can generally do pretty well with digital by thinking out what he has to do. RESOLUTION: Except in expensive pro quality cameras, the light sensors have a smaller area than the film size of a 35mm camera. Therefore, for a given resolution in lines/mm, I would think the actual sharpness would have to be less in digital. However there are other factors limiting resolution, including the number of lines/mm that the film and/or the digital sensor will resolve. In practice you'd have to look at the images to see if the difference is perceptible to you. To my eye, digital images look very sharp. Note that, if resolution is critical, perfectionists will also stay away from 35mm, using larger film sizes instead. As for the 30MP equivalent of 35mm film, I find that very hard to believe. I saw a photo in Pop Photo from an 8mp camera that was clearly sharper than one taken on 35 mm film. CONCLUSIONS: You have listed all of the perceived disadvantages of digital as compared to film. I think some of them are real - though whether they are significant to you depends on what you shoot and what appeals to you. But you also need to consider the advantages of digital as compared to film. These include: No more film cost. No developing cost. No darkroom time and cost. Instant feedback on the LCD display of what your shot looks like. If you have a laptop with you, for example on a trip, you can see your images on the large screen each night instead of waiting until you get home and get them developed. No film loading in the field. A 256 MB card can take 280 or so 3 MP images before it has to be dumped out to a computer. No degradation of image quality over time (so long as you keep backing up your files.) No more physical boxes of negatives, contact sheets, or prints. A single 160 GB hard disk can store 160,000 1 MB digital images. A single CD can store 700 of them. Easy distribution. Post shot editing that goes miles beyond what anyone can do with film, and is orders of magnitude easier to do. When I was shooting film, I was very careful about not wasting film on shots that I wasn't sure would "come out" right. Now I shoot anything I want, whenever I want, knowing it doesn't cost me a penny. I suspect that, if you get a digital camera, you'll like it. Alan |
#16
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#17
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#18
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Hi Ken
I am a mere novice in photography be it medium format, 35mm or digital I understood that in medium format there are bellows lenses which are quite handy for study work - are they expensive items? Thanks in advance Arty "Ken Scharf" wrote in message news I have found that the prints made from my Olympus D590Z, even at 8x10 (though I usually print these at 4X5, or two to a sheet of paper) are as good as what I remember getting from my Nikon FA using 200-400 ASA print film. I now have an Olympus C5050, havn't used it enough to make any comments, but this camera should be much improved over the older P&S model! Note that I'm NOT a professional photographer, just a hobby user who takes his camera on trips with the family like everyone else. Clearly digital cameras are now good enough to replace 110 and 35mm point and shoot cameras, and low end 35mm SLR's. As for pro 35mm cameras, they are (or will soon be) and indangered species as digicams get better. I doubt that medium format and plate film view cameras will EVER be replaced by digital, but these have always been the field of a very few professional (and dedicated!) group. |
#19
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Hi Ken
I am a mere novice in photography be it medium format, 35mm or digital I understood that in medium format there are bellows lenses which are quite handy for study work - are they expensive items? Thanks in advance Arty "Ken Scharf" wrote in message news I have found that the prints made from my Olympus D590Z, even at 8x10 (though I usually print these at 4X5, or two to a sheet of paper) are as good as what I remember getting from my Nikon FA using 200-400 ASA print film. I now have an Olympus C5050, havn't used it enough to make any comments, but this camera should be much improved over the older P&S model! Note that I'm NOT a professional photographer, just a hobby user who takes his camera on trips with the family like everyone else. Clearly digital cameras are now good enough to replace 110 and 35mm point and shoot cameras, and low end 35mm SLR's. As for pro 35mm cameras, they are (or will soon be) and indangered species as digicams get better. I doubt that medium format and plate film view cameras will EVER be replaced by digital, but these have always been the field of a very few professional (and dedicated!) group. |
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