Pyro Staining B&W negatives vs. C-41 Monochromatic film

"KS" not.me@com wrote in message news:WifTc.97257$M95.43550@pd7tw1no...
What are the advantages/differences between using say ABC Pyro as opposed to
C-41 based B&W process film? I'm debating whether it is worth the trouble to
use play around with pyro. Thx.

I´ve never tried ABC but tried PMK for a while. PMK works nicely with
most non-Tgrain films; seems to have a smooth straight curve and high
acutance when printed on VC paper. As a high acutance developer it
delivers better tonality than Rodinal or Beutler in my opinion. Grainy
and a little hard to work with.. To me the only thing I really don't
like about it is that it prints differently on graded and VC paper. I
never liked the tonality of C-41 films.
Yes it's worth playing around with.

"KS" not.me@com wrote in message news:WifTc.97257$M95.43550@pd7tw1no...
What are the advantages/differences between using say ABC Pyro as opposed to
C-41 based B&W process film? I'm debating whether it is worth the trouble to
use play around with pyro. Thx.

I´ve never tried ABC but tried PMK for a while. PMK works nicely with
most non-Tgrain films; seems to have a smooth straight curve and high
acutance when printed on VC paper. As a high acutance developer it
delivers better tonality than Rodinal or Beutler in my opinion. Grainy
and a little hard to work with.. To me the only thing I really don't
like about it is that it prints differently on graded and VC paper. I
never liked the tonality of C-41 films.
Yes it's worth playing around with.

What are the advantages/differences between using say ABC
Pyro as opposed to
C-41 based B&W process film? I'm debating whether it is
worth the trouble to
use play around with pyro. Thx.

What are you trying to accomplish?

A really good negative with wonderful tones.

What are the advantages/differences between using say ABC
Pyro as opposed to
C-41 based B&W process film? I'm debating whether it is
worth the trouble to
use play around with pyro. Thx.

What are you trying to accomplish?

A really good negative with wonderful tones.

What are the advantages/differences between using say ABC
Pyro as opposed to
C-41 based B&W process film? I'm debating whether it is
worth the trouble to
use play around with pyro. Thx.


You are really talking about apples and swimming pools here. What are
you envisioning as your final prints, Azo or an alt process contact
print, or machine enlargment prints? Can you even get C-41 B&W films
big enough for a decent contact print? If you are planning on doing
enlargments, ABC is nearly useless. Look at PMK or Pyrocat HD for
that, and you will get much "sharper" negs that you would with the
C-41 stuff.
Brook

OK let's say it's PMK. I know absolutely nothing about Pyros at this point.
Just some cursory readings at present. I've read that it's a dye or stain
which is in some ways similar to the way color film (e.g. monochromatic c41)
works. I first want to use it on 35mm, and medium format negs, then I'll try
8X10. Will I see a improvement in my negs? I want to work toward contact
printing from 8X10 or digital negs to palladium at some point in the future.

What are the advantages/differences between using say ABC
Pyro as opposed to
C-41 based B&W process film? I'm debating whether it is
worth the trouble to
use play around with pyro. Thx.


You are really talking about apples and swimming pools here. What are
you envisioning as your final prints, Azo or an alt process contact
print, or machine enlargment prints? Can you even get C-41 B&W films
big enough for a decent contact print? If you are planning on doing
enlargments, ABC is nearly useless. Look at PMK or Pyrocat HD for
that, and you will get much "sharper" negs that you would with the
C-41 stuff.
Brook

OK let's say it's PMK. I know absolutely nothing about Pyros at this point.
Just some cursory readings at present. I've read that it's a dye or stain
which is in some ways similar to the way color film (e.g. monochromatic c41)
works. I first want to use it on 35mm, and medium format negs, then I'll try
8X10. Will I see a improvement in my negs? I want to work toward contact
printing from 8X10 or digital negs to palladium at some point in the future.

"Michael Scarpitti" wrote in message
om...
"KS" not.me@com wrote in message
news:WifTc.97257$M95.43550@pd7tw1no...
What are the advantages/differences between using say ABC Pyro as
opposed to
C-41 based B&W process film? I'm debating whether it is worth the
trouble to
use play around with pyro. Thx.

ABC is a very old formula, and I doubt you will have very good results
with modern films. Pyro is highly toxic and tricky to work with. It's
hard to control the staining, as stop baths and fixers will bleach it
out depending on various conditions.

Pyro today has very little to recommend it.

OK how about PMK?

"Michael Scarpitti" wrote in message
om...
"KS" not.me@com wrote in message
news:WifTc.97257$M95.43550@pd7tw1no...
What are the advantages/differences between using say ABC Pyro as
opposed to
C-41 based B&W process film? I'm debating whether it is worth the
trouble to
use play around with pyro. Thx.

ABC is a very old formula, and I doubt you will have very good results
with modern films. Pyro is highly toxic and tricky to work with. It's
hard to control the staining, as stop baths and fixers will bleach it
out depending on various conditions.

Pyro today has very little to recommend it.

OK how about PMK?

"Jytzel" wrote in message
om...
"KS" not.me@com wrote in message
news:WifTc.97257$M95.43550@pd7tw1no...
What are the advantages/differences between using say ABC Pyro as
opposed to
C-41 based B&W process film? I'm debating whether it is worth the
trouble to
use play around with pyro. Thx.

I´ve never tried ABC but tried PMK for a while. PMK works nicely with
most non-Tgrain films; seems to have a smooth straight curve and high
acutance when printed on VC paper. As a high acutance developer it
delivers better tonality than Rodinal or Beutler in my opinion. Grainy
and a little hard to work with.. To me the only thing I really don't
like about it is that it prints differently on graded and VC paper. I
never liked the tonality of C-41 films.
Yes it's worth playing around with.

Thank you. You've had first hand experience. Any other tips on starting down
this road would be appreciated.

"Jytzel" wrote in message
om...
"KS" not.me@com wrote in message
news:WifTc.97257$M95.43550@pd7tw1no...
What are the advantages/differences between using say ABC Pyro as
opposed to
C-41 based B&W process film? I'm debating whether it is worth the
trouble to
use play around with pyro. Thx.

I´ve never tried ABC but tried PMK for a while. PMK works nicely with
most non-Tgrain films; seems to have a smooth straight curve and high
acutance when printed on VC paper. As a high acutance developer it
delivers better tonality than Rodinal or Beutler in my opinion. Grainy
and a little hard to work with.. To me the only thing I really don't
like about it is that it prints differently on graded and VC paper. I
never liked the tonality of C-41 films.
Yes it's worth playing around with.

Thank you. You've had first hand experience. Any other tips on starting down
this road would be appreciated.