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#21
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Digital Photography On Aircraft Not Permitted on Take Off or Landing
"Craig Welch" wrote in message ... "Podge" said: "Craig Welch" wrote in message . .. "Podge" said: Well then, how do professional photographers get their city aerial pics? Do they have to especially hire aircraft for this purpose? Yep. If digital cameras really were a threat to an aircraft's navigation systems, why aren't they especially mentioned in the instructions that are read out by flight crew? Because it's necessary to keep the announcement to less than an hour. Do you want them to mention *every* conceivable type of electronic device? By brand and colour? As mentioned by another, it's quite possible that they don't really care about your particular kind of camera. But they do not want to put the stewardess in the position of having to make a technical decision. So she will ask you to turn off anything that looks electronic. And you will respect her request. -- Craig http://www.wazu.jp/ 1,239 Unicode fonts for 82 written language groups: Price your own web plan: http://www.wazu.jp/hosting/ I agree that the list could be endless, but it's such a common thing for people to own digital cameras and want to use them on a flight. I think there would be a lot more digital cameras on a flight than laptop computers, so I think specific reference should be made to digital cameras if these are not permitted to be used during take-offs and landings. Someone mentioned digital watches, even in the days of "Get Smart" these could conceal just about anything, so it's a wonder that you are allowed to keep these on during a flight in case you could remotely detonate an explosive device with your watch or take a pic with it! |
#22
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Digital Photography On Aircraft Not Permitted on Take Off orLanding
On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 16:58:34 +1300, "Podge" wrote:
"E. Scrooge" (*sling) wrote in message news:1200281873.491622@ftpsrv1... "sam" wrote in message ... Mark Robinson wrote: Podge wrote: I was on an Air New Zealand flight a while ago, and I started to take a few pics (from my digital still camera) as the aircraft took off. An air hostess politely told me that the use of electronic devices was not permitted during take-offs or landings. I told her that I was using a dedicated still digital camera and not a camcorder, but she still asked me to turn it off. About 10 minutes later, when land was well out of sight, we were able to turn on our "electronic devices". But about 10 minutes before landing, while still over the sea, all electronic devices had to be turned off again. The only worthwhile photography from this flight was during the first and last 5 minutes of the flight, and this would apply to many other flights that I have been on. Now I know that the use of camcorders has been banned during take-offs and landings, but I didn't know that digital still cameras now suffered this fate. My digital camera can't take movies, but I know that a lot of digital still cameras can also take movies. From a practical point of view, does anyone know whether digital cameras really CAN interfere with an aircraft's navigation systems? Are airlines being a little too cautious with regard to the use of digital cameras and camcorders? About 5 years ago, nobody cared when I used my camcorder or digital still camera during take-offs or landings, and there were no reports then of interference with the aircrafts' navigation systems! So what has changed during the last 5 years? Any digital device can easily interfere with avionic systems. They all contain square wave clock oscillators and logic circuits which produce broadband radio noise which can easily land on critical frequencies for things like precision approach, radar or communications systems. Mythbusted, http://kwc.org/mythbusters/2006/03/e..._on_plane.html Its because the aviation authorities don't want to do the testing. No reason, its just policy. Planes would be crashing a lot due to the digital watches that everyone completely disregards otherwise. Planes are well insulated from any interference, especially from different electronics built into the plane itself. Otherwise the coffee maker might bring up the landing gear and cause the engines to shut down. E. Scrooge However, this article suggests that interference from portable electronic devices demonstrates 'potential for catastrophe' http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m..._97423671/pg_2 Personally, I don't care if it's safety, security, or if it's just that the flight attendant can't be arsed to check out every device she sees a passenger holding. If you argue with them, you'll end up in a little green room back in the terminal explaining to some burly security guard that your device is harmless and you just wanted a picture of the honey wagon. In the meantime, your flight will be halfway home and you won't be on it. -- Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida |
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Digital Photography On Aircraft Not Permitted on Take Off or Landing
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#24
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Digital Photography On Aircraft Not Permitted on Take Off orLanding
tony cooper wrote:
On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 16:58:34 +1300, "Podge" wrote: "E. Scrooge" (*sling) wrote in message news:1200281873.491622@ftpsrv1... "sam" wrote in message ... Mark Robinson wrote: Podge wrote: I was on an Air New Zealand flight a while ago, and I started to take a few pics (from my digital still camera) as the aircraft took off. An air hostess politely told me that the use of electronic devices was not permitted during take-offs or landings. I told her that I was using a dedicated still digital camera and not a camcorder, but she still asked me to turn it off. About 10 minutes later, when land was well out of sight, we were able to turn on our "electronic devices". But about 10 minutes before landing, while still over the sea, all electronic devices had to be turned off again. The only worthwhile photography from this flight was during the first and last 5 minutes of the flight, and this would apply to many other flights that I have been on. Now I know that the use of camcorders has been banned during take-offs and landings, but I didn't know that digital still cameras now suffered this fate. My digital camera can't take movies, but I know that a lot of digital still cameras can also take movies. From a practical point of view, does anyone know whether digital cameras really CAN interfere with an aircraft's navigation systems? Are airlines being a little too cautious with regard to the use of digital cameras and camcorders? About 5 years ago, nobody cared when I used my camcorder or digital still camera during take-offs or landings, and there were no reports then of interference with the aircrafts' navigation systems! So what has changed during the last 5 years? Any digital device can easily interfere with avionic systems. They all contain square wave clock oscillators and logic circuits which produce broadband radio noise which can easily land on critical frequencies for things like precision approach, radar or communications systems. Mythbusted, http://kwc.org/mythbusters/2006/03/e..._on_plane.html Its because the aviation authorities don't want to do the testing. No reason, its just policy. Planes would be crashing a lot due to the digital watches that everyone completely disregards otherwise. Planes are well insulated from any interference, especially from different electronics built into the plane itself. Otherwise the coffee maker might bring up the landing gear and cause the engines to shut down. E. Scrooge However, this article suggests that interference from portable electronic devices demonstrates 'potential for catastrophe' http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m..._97423671/pg_2 Personally, I don't care if it's safety, security, or if it's just that the flight attendant can't be arsed to check out every device she sees a passenger holding. If you argue with them, you'll end up in a little green room back in the terminal explaining to some burly security guard that your device is harmless and you just wanted a picture of the honey wagon. In the meantime, your flight will be halfway home and you won't be on it. Just be discrete and put it away when they pass. No problem. If they see you, they'll ask you to put it away, no big deal: put it away politely at that time. |
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Digital Photography On Aircraft Not Permitted on Take Off orLanding
Podge wrote:
or whether it's simply easier to ban all electronic devices? Yep. |
#26
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Digital Photography On Aircraft Not Permitted on Take Off or Landing
"Podge" wrote:
I was on an Air New Zealand flight a while ago, and I started to take a few pics (from my digital still camera) as the aircraft took off. An air hostess politely told me that the use of electronic devices was not permitted during take-offs or landings.[...] First a lot of people who answered to this posting seem to confuse security and safety. The "all electronic devises off" has nothing to do with security but is all about safety and non-interference with avionics and has has been in effect for a long time. However the operator does have discretion to allow devices they deem harmless. FAR § 91.21 Portable electronic devices: (a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, no person may operate, nor may any operator or pilot in command of an aircraft allow the operation of, any portable electronic device on any of the following U.S.-registered civil aircraft: (1) Aircraft operated by a holder of an air carrier operating certificate or an operating certificate; or (2) Any other aircraft while it is operated under IFR. (b) Paragraph (a) of this section does not apply to— [...] (5) Any other portable electronic device that the operator of the aircraft has determined will not cause interference with the navigation or communication system of the aircraft on which it is to be used. I suppose other countries have enacted similar regulations. jue |
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Digital Photography On Aircraft Not Permitted on Take Off orLanding
Podge wrote:
Someone mentioned digital watches, even in the days of "Get Smart" these could conceal just about anything, so it's a wonder that you are allowed to keep these on during a flight in case you could remotely detonate an explosive device with your watch or take a pic with it! Absolutely. Luddites. But that's life in the 21st century, I suggest simply being discrete. |
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Digital Photography On Aircraft Not Permitted on Take Off or Landing
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#29
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Digital Photography On Aircraft Not Permitted on Take Off orLanding
tony cooper wrote:
On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 16:27:21 +1300, "Podge" wrote: "tony cooper" wrote in message ... I think there are some considerations you haven't thought about. I don't know what the air hostess to passenger ratio was, but we can't expect the air hostesses to have the time to check out each passenger's device to see if it's something that is, or is not, within the rules. In that brief time that you were stopped from using your device, she had to monitor several passengers and conduct her other duties. It makes their job easier to just say "no devices". Also, there's the security consideration of allowing images to be taken of ground facilities. Perhaps we're more conscious of this in the US, but the idea of people being able to photograph airport ground facilities is not acceptable here. It may be that the possible interference in the aircraft's systems is not the reason for the ban at all. It's a plausible excuse that passengers are more likely to accept because they don't know anything about the aircraft's system. Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida Good points, but I think if someone really wanted to take movies from a departing aircraft, they could easily conceal a tiny video camera. We see a few TV clips these days where people were filmed by miniature hidden cameras. In addition, you can often see amazing detail from images on Google earth, so I think it might be quite difficult to stop people getting images of airport ground facilities? The question is not "Can you sneak some photographs on take-offs and landings?", but "Why does the air hostess ask you to turn devices off?" Sure, you can risk it. But, if caught, you'll be removed from the flight and quite possibly banned from that carrier. Yes, Google earth gets images of ground facilities. From straight up. From the cabin window you can get lateral views not possible with Google images. You are allowed to take pics on the taxiways where all the juicy stuff is or out the windows in the terminal looking at all the ground operations. The commercial carrier ban isn't going to make it impossible to get images of every aspect of the ground facilities, but it's going to make it more difficult. That's what most security measures do. Interestingly, I had to pick up a relative at a local airport on Saturday. I arrived early and went to the commercial park next to the airport (not on airport grounds) and killed some time looking for shots. The airport is a former Naval Air Station http://www.orlandosanfordairport.com/history.htm and what is now the commercial park was part of the Navy base in WWII. There are still some old buildings there that go back to the Navy base days. I was photographing a large storage tank hoping that the shadows of the winding stairway up the white tank would make a good picture (it didn't) and a security guard approached me. Turns out it's something to do with the government (I didn't catch that part of the guard's warning) and the guard firmly requested that I not take any more pictures. He didn't ask me to erase the one picture that I had taken, but he was firm about me leaving that immediate area. It's a private facility, not a public street (or is it?) so they can do anything but that doesn't mean it makes any sense or has any reason. Here's the pic. I didn't bother cropping or doing anything to it because I don't see any potential. http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...213/sat001.jpg -- Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida |
#30
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Digital Photography On Aircraft Not Permitted on Take Off or Landing
On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 04:56:29 GMT, Jürgen Exner
wrote: "Podge" wrote: I was on an Air New Zealand flight a while ago, and I started to take a few pics (from my digital still camera) as the aircraft took off. An air hostess politely told me that the use of electronic devices was not permitted during take-offs or landings.[...] First a lot of people who answered to this posting seem to confuse security and safety. The "all electronic devises off" has nothing to do with security but is all about safety and non-interference with avionics and has has been in effect for a long time. I don't know that there's any confusion about this. It's not necessarily a situation where the reason is safety *or* security. The rule was put into effect when the systems were vulnerable to interference, or were thought to be vulnerable to interference. Even if the interference factors are reduced or eliminated by improved systems, or if the interference factor is disproved, the rule may continue to be in effect because there are *also* security considerations. "Because" can have more than one answer. -- Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida |
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