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#11
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B&W film developing questions
In article ,
"Lawrence Akutagawa" wrote: There are folks who don't like Rodinal. That's okay. After all, some folks don't like Chevrolets and others don't like Toyotas. The key is to try Rodinal. If you like the results, great. If you don't like the results, look for something else. I my mind's eye Rodinal creates a tonal scale at 1;50 & 1:100 close to PMK without the stain, so it ends up a little more grainy in appearance. And of course less toxic. -- Reality is a picture perfected and never looking back. |
#12
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B&W film developing questions
In article m,
David Nebenzahl wrote: but you're not likely to get smooth-looking results with Rodinal. I think that really depends. Some films unquestionably are not going to give the photographer tight grain "small clumps" when processed using Rodinal. However T grain films should work well with Rodinal especially when using 1:50 & 1:100 dilutions. -- Reality is a picture perfected and never looking back. |
#13
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B&W film developing questions
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#14
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B&W film developing questions
"Lawrence Akutagawa" wrote in message ... My own prediliction is to decant the 500ml container into 1 oz (30 ml) glass amber bottles. Yep! The bottles with the expressed cap that displaces the last bit of Rodinal. Air free. Done that way, Rodinal will last forever. |
#15
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B&W film developing questions
"____" wrote in message ... In article , (Thor Lancelot Simon) wrote: The problem, of course, is that it also reduces true film speed by as much as one full stop -- so in practice, you end up with 50 speed film, at most, and then you need a tripod, unless you're shooting snowscapes at noon. Define film speed Reduces? of just shows the speed of older emulsions for what they really are? The published speeds of films are determined by a well controlled standard method. The speed does vary with the developer and the current ISO standard requires that the published speed note the type of developer used for the test. The total variation of speed with developer type is not very great, its limits are probably no more than + or - about 3/4 to one stop. The fastest speeds are obtained from developers with Phenidone or its derivatives (but not all Phenidone developers increase speed) such as T-Max and T-Max RS, Xtol, or Ilford Microphen. The lowest speeds from extra-fine-grain developers like Microdol-X or Ilford Perceptol either at full strength. Developers like D-76 fall into the middle somewhere with the speed increasing developers yeilding about 3/4 stop more speed and the extra-fine-grain developers about 3/4 stop less speed. When diluted the extra-fine-grain developers mentioned above deliver about the same speed as D-76 but loose their extra-fine-grain property and deliver grain also about the same as D-76. Rodinal delivers somewhat less speed than D-76 but not much, maybe 1/2 stop. Generally the underexposure latitude of most films will accomodate this. Note that the ISO standard is designed to calculate the minimum exposure that results in good tone rendition of shadows. The reason is to minimise grain, which generally increases with density, and to maximize sharpness. sharpness is decreased by "irradiation" which is the spreading out of highlights in the negative due to internal reflection in the emulsion. Modern emulsions are not as vulnerable to either of these effects as the films made when the standard was designed. For many purposes the tone rendition can be improved by increasing exposure a bit, usually reducing speed by about 20% will do it. But, of course, the exposure is due not only to the film speed by the method of metering and decisions made by the photographer as to what consitutes the shadow areas of the scene being photographed where he/she wants detail. Note that the ISO standard being discussed applies only to B&W still negative film, there are different standards for motion picture films, color films, transparency films, etc. Rodinal is a good, general purpose, developer whose main virtue is its convenience and reliability. It delivers good tone rendition from most films at the cost of somewhat more grain than developers like D-76 or Xtol but the T-Max developers and Microphen are nearly as grainy. Rodinal tends to produce somewhat finer grain when its diluted. I generally use it at around 1:50 but that is also to get convenient times for the films I work with. My "standard" developer for most work is D-76 diluted 1:1 and used once. I also use Microdol-X or Perceptol full strength for 35mm 100T-Max because the combination delivers extremely fine grain with reasonable speed. -- --- Richard Knoppow Los Angeles, CA, USA |
#16
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B&W film developing questions
"G.T." wrote in message ... Ok, I just developed my first 3 rolls of film at home, and except for a little bit of dust on the last roll the results are excellent. I'll sporadically be developing more over the next couple of months. I'm using Rodinal, Arista's indicator stop bath, Arista's Universal non-hardening fixer, and Kentflo. Questions: 1. The Rodinal says undiluted it will last 6 months. Can I be safe to assume it will last that long? Also, with the Rodinal I've been developing only one roll per mix because I'm new at this. With Accufine, the previous developer I used, I would do a couple of rolls in one canister before dumping back into my storage container and replenishing. And after 3 months at the same developing time my negs were a little light. Can I develop more than one roll of film in my Rodinal? 2. The stop is the least of my worries, right? It should be ok for a couple dozen rolls over the next couple of months? 3. What's the expected longevity of the fixer? Thanks, Greg Rodinal has a very long life. It can turn nearly black and still work. The working solution should be used only once and discarded. While the used developer will still develop it will be hard to predict the results. However, if the amount of solution is reasonably large you can probably get a second roll by increasing time by about 20%. You can re-use the stop bath in a single session as long as it remains acid (the indicator will show this) but its not good practice to save it between sessions. Fixer has relatively low capacity for complete fixing and complete fixing is important to the lifetime of the developed film. The rule of thumb is to discard the fixer when _clearing_ time has doubled but IMO this is stretching things a bit. Clearing time is measured by fixing out a scrap of the film you are working with. Soak the sample in water for a couple of minutes before testing it because wet film fixes at a different rate than dry film. Test a sample when the fixer is first mixed and before its used. Note the time it takes for the film to become completely clear. The rule of thumb is to fix for twice this time and to discard the bath than the clearing time doubles. Unless you work with very small quantities of film its best to use two successive fixing baths. The film or paper is fixed in each bath for half the normal fixing time. The first bath does most of the work leaving the second bath relatively fresh so it can clean up any unfixed halide. After the first bath becomes exhausted its dumped. The second bath then becomes the first bath and a new second bath is mixed. Kodak has full instructions about this in their Darkroom Dataguide booklet. In addition to your processing method outlined above I would add the use of a wash aid. I prefer Kodak Hypo Clearing Agent because Kodak has published the details of its contents and experimental evidence that it works. I believe that Ilford's wash aid is essentially identical. Teh wash aid will reduce film washing time from about 30 minutes to about 5 minutes. The wash aid can also remove some otherwise insoluble fixer reaction products. Use the wetting agent after washing as you are doing. Because the wetting agent can collect gelatin from the film and will support mold it should not be saved between sessions. It can be used for more than one roll of film but should be discarded after you finish working. -- --- Richard Knoppow Los Angeles, CA, USA Similar advice applies to paper development. |
#17
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B&W film developing questions
"G.T." wrote in message ... Right, but I'm still too worried that I'll screw up 5 rolls at a time by doing something really stupid like popping the top off of my tank while agitating. Once I get on a roll I'll switch to my 3 roll tank. Well understood. Enjoy. |
#18
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B&W film developing questions
pico wrote:
"Lawrence Akutagawa" wrote in message ... My own prediliction is to decant the 500ml container into 1 oz (30 ml) glass amber bottles. Yep! The bottles with the expressed cap that displaces the last bit of Rodinal. Air free. Done that way, Rodinal will last forever. I remember back a LONG time ago, Rodinal came in an amber bottle with a rubber stopper under the cap. Since my father was a doctor, I got a hold of a large syringe and needle and was able to extract and measure small amounts of developer without ever adding any air to the bottle. I guess that can't be done anymore |
#19
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B&W film developing questions
Richard Knoppow wrote:
Fixer has relatively low capacity for complete fixing and complete fixing is important to the lifetime of the developed film. The rule of thumb is to discard the fixer when _clearing_ time has doubled but IMO this is stretching things a bit. Clearing time is measured by fixing out a scrap of the film you are working with. Soak the sample in water for a couple of minutes before testing it because wet film fixes at a different rate than dry film. Test a sample when the fixer is first mixed and before its used. Note the time it takes for the film to become completely clear. The rule of thumb is to fix for twice this time and to discard the bath than the clearing time doubles. Thanks Richard. I'll have to do this. I was just using the times suggested on the fixer bottle. From reading your post and Lawrence's I can test by snipping off the leader of a 35mm roll? Just drop it in some fixer and time how long it takes to clear? I also have a roll of 120 Tri-X 400 that I opened just to practice loading a reel with. Unless you work with very small quantities of film its best to use two successive fixing baths. The film or paper is fixed in each bath for half the normal fixing time. The first bath does most of the work leaving the second bath relatively fresh so it can clean up any unfixed halide. After the first bath becomes exhausted its dumped. The second bath then becomes the first bath and a new second bath is mixed. Kodak has full instructions about this in their Darkroom Dataguide booklet. In addition to your processing method outlined above I would add the use of a wash aid. I prefer Kodak Hypo Clearing Agent because Kodak has published the details of its contents and experimental evidence that it works. I believe that Ilford's wash aid is essentially identical. Teh wash aid will reduce film washing time from about 30 minutes to about 5 minutes. The wash aid can also remove some otherwise insoluble fixer reaction products. Use the wetting agent after washing as you are doing. Because the wetting agent can collect gelatin from the film and will support mold it should not be saved between sessions. It can be used for more than one roll of film but should be discarded after you finish working. So in this workflow it would be develop, stop, fix, hypo, wash, and wetting agent? In class we washed prints in hypo but not film. Oh, and regarding grain, my instructor actually suggested that I use Xtol for now. But during class he told us that we'll get larger, more noticeable grain if we using something like Rodinal/HC-110. That's why I'm currently playing with it. The bigger issue is that I'm getting used to developing at home but there is no way I'm going to be able to print at home. Does anyone have any current suggestions on finding a rental darkroom in LA these days? I'm currently signed up for another B&W class in Burbank, but I'm not going to have time to these next few months to actually do any assignments, I just want to print stuff from the last 4 months. I was thinking about calling up Translight Colors. Anyone heard good or bad? Thanks, Greg |
#20
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B&W film developing questions
"G.T." wrote in message ... snip So in this workflow it would be develop, stop, fix, hypo, wash, and wetting agent? In class we washed prints in hypo but not film. Just for the record. "fixer" and "hypo" are basically the same thing. I realize that when you say "hypo", you mean "hypo clearing agent"(sometimes called "HCA"). The purpose of the hypo clearing agent is to remove the hypo or fixer from the film or print. Back in the 'good old days' when prints were actually paper and not resin-coated plastic stuff, the paper print would soak up a lot of chemicals. You needed to wash a print for perhaps an hour or so to remove all the fixer from the porous paper. (Ricard K., please feel free to jump in and correct me or elaborate-- I'm certain you are far more knowledgeable on this!). A hypo clearing agent would neutralize the hypo (or fixer), so that a shorter wash time (perhaps 30 minutes?) would suffice. Film, being a non-porous material (or certainly less porous than fiber-based prints) doesn't soak up as much chemistry, so a hypo clearing agent is not as important. If it's critical to you that your negatives last to the next millenia, than you may want to use it anyway...! As for not being able to print at home, there are many people who make do with printing in a bathroom. Some use a cart (Rubbermaid? Check office supply or food service supply companies.) to hold their enlarger and store their chems, trays, and stuff so they can wheel everything into the bathroom for a session, then wheel it all into a closet for storage. You can put velcro around the window frame and stick a piece of faric or cardboard over the window. There is also a gentleman who espouses 'one-tray' processing. I've never tried it myself, but perhaps for the temporary darkroom, it may be the answer. Maybe someone here can supply the link to his website, or to websites for temporary darkrooms. Using the kitchen is also a possibility, but some people don't like that idea because of the possibility of food being contaminated-- but for darkroom work, cleanliness is important, so wipe up those chem spills! For me, you can take away my permanent darkrooms when you can pry the staticmaster brush from my cold, dead fingers! |
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