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The base ("native") ISO of a sensor



 
 
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  #1  
Old May 25th 17, 11:03 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Alfred Molon[_4_]
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Posts: 2,591
Default The base ("native") ISO of a sensor

The Olympus E-M1 II has the lowest noise at ISO 64 (at the cost of a bit
less dynamic range) but the highest dynamic range at ISO 200. So what
would be the native or base ISO of the sensor?
How would that be defined?
--
Alfred Molon

Olympus E-series DSLRs and micro 4/3 forum at
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
http://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site
  #2  
Old May 26th 17, 05:08 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
android
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Posts: 3,854
Default The base ("native") ISO of a sensor

In article ,
RichA wrote:

On Thursday, 25 May 2017 18:03:37 UTC-4, Alfred Molon wrote:
The Olympus E-M1 II has the lowest noise at ISO 64 (at the cost of a bit
less dynamic range) but the highest dynamic range at ISO 200. So what
would be the native or base ISO of the sensor?
How would that be defined?
--
Alfred Molon

Olympus E-series DSLRs and micro 4/3 forum at
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
http://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site


Nobody knows. Finding a place where it is pinned-down to a specific sensor
is difficult. Likely you'd have better luck finding out in a professional
area where CCD and CMOS-based cameras actually have to meet certain specs,
unlike the consumer realm.


As we all know: The sensors of quarterframe/mFT cameras are silly small.
Thus the photon wells are small too! At the lower ISO the wells fills up
more and thus the noise is reduced but the room for play at the top of
the well gets thiner and then again less dynamic range is found in the
files.

Again: Bigger is better! :-))
--
teleportation kills
  #3  
Old May 26th 17, 06:02 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Sandman
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Posts: 5,467
Default The base ("native") ISO of a sensor


In article , Alfred Molon wrote:

The Olympus E-M1 II has the lowest noise at ISO 64 (at the cost of a bit
less dynamic range) but the highest dynamic range at ISO 200. So what
would be the native or base ISO of the sensor?
How would that be defined?


Unless the camera maker doesn't specify this specifically, there is no way
to know when the sensor output is boosted or not.

--
Sandman[.net]
  #4  
Old May 26th 17, 06:14 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
android
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Posts: 3,854
Default The base ("native") ISO of a sensor

In article ,
Sandman wrote:

In article , Alfred Molon
wrote:

The Olympus E-M1 II has the lowest noise at ISO 64 (at the cost of a bit
less dynamic range) but the highest dynamic range at ISO 200. So what
would be the native or base ISO of the sensor?
How would that be defined?


Unless the camera maker doesn't specify this specifically, there is no way
to know when the sensor output is boosted or not.


Cooked you mean? The DR graph is a tad "swawy"... ;-p

https://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Olym...--Measurements

--
teleportation kills
  #5  
Old May 26th 17, 06:50 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
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Posts: 24,165
Default The base ("native") ISO of a sensor

In article , Sandman
wrote:

The Olympus E-M1 II has the lowest noise at ISO 64 (at the cost of a bit
less dynamic range) but the highest dynamic range at ISO 200. So what
would be the native or base ISO of the sensor?
How would that be defined?


Unless the camera maker doesn't specify this specifically, there is no way
to know when the sensor output is boosted or not.


there is.
  #6  
Old May 26th 17, 01:18 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Me
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Posts: 470
Default The base ("native") ISO of a sensor

On 26/05/2017 5:50 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , Sandman
wrote:

The Olympus E-M1 II has the lowest noise at ISO 64 (at the cost of a bit
less dynamic range) but the highest dynamic range at ISO 200. So what
would be the native or base ISO of the sensor?
How would that be defined?


Unless the camera maker doesn't specify this specifically, there is no way
to know when the sensor output is boosted or not.


there is.

Yes.
and also the comment that:
"The Olympus E-M1 II has the lowest noise at ISO 64 (at the cost of a
bit less dynamic range)
makes no sense.

Anyway, as Scotty said - "Ye cannae change laws of physics"

http://photonstophotos.net/Charts/PD...M1%20Mark%20II
But wait - Olympus appears to have done so.
So either they're bull****ting about actual ISO setting (which they've
done before) or bull****ting by applying noise reduction to raw files
(which they've also done before), or bull****ting about both (likely).
So if you /think/ when it's set at ISO 6400 - it actually is, and you
/think/ there's no NR applied to raw files, and are happy with the
result, then enjoy.

  #7  
Old May 26th 17, 03:51 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24,165
Default The base ("native") ISO of a sensor

In article , Me
wrote:

The Olympus E-M1 II has the lowest noise at ISO 64 (at the cost of a bit
less dynamic range) but the highest dynamic range at ISO 200. So what
would be the native or base ISO of the sensor?
How would that be defined?

Unless the camera maker doesn't specify this specifically, there is no way
to know when the sensor output is boosted or not.


there is.

Yes.
and also the comment that:
"The Olympus E-M1 II has the lowest noise at ISO 64 (at the cost of a
bit less dynamic range)
makes no sense.


it does if you think about what they're probably doing, which is simply
overexposing (their claimed lower iso), thereby blowing the highlights,
resulting in less dynamic range.

based on the above description, the native iso is around iso 200, but
actual tests would need to be done to find out what it really is

Anyway, as Scotty said - "Ye cannae change laws of physics"

http://photonstophotos.net/Charts/PD...OM-D%20E-M1%20
Mark%20II
But wait - Olympus appears to have done so.
So either they're bull****ting about actual ISO setting (which they've
done before) or bull****ting by applying noise reduction to raw files
(which they've also done before), or bull****ting about both (likely).
So if you /think/ when it's set at ISO 6400 - it actually is, and you
/think/ there's no NR applied to raw files, and are happy with the
result, then enjoy.


of course they're bull****ting.

olympus is well known for that, although nowhere near as much as sigma.
  #8  
Old May 26th 17, 06:18 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Alan Browne
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Posts: 12,640
Default The base ("native") ISO of a sensor

On 2017-05-25 18:03, Alfred Molon wrote:
The Olympus E-M1 II has the lowest noise at ISO 64 (at the cost of a bit
less dynamic range) but the highest dynamic range at ISO 200. So what
would be the native or base ISO of the sensor?
How would that be defined?


The "base" would be the ISO where the analog and digital gain are both 1
(0 dB). I've never seen a camera maker publish that. The analog gain
stage is a noise source in itself - even at 0 dB - but unavoidable.

For my cameras (DSLR's) the base appears to be ISO 160 based on various
noise graphs. But frankly anywhere from 100 to 400 appears the same in
normal viewing. 800 and shadow noise is discernible in processing at
100% zoom but invisible in prints or display.

--
"If war is God's way of teaching Americans geography, then
recession is His way of teaching everyone a little economics."
..Raj Patel, The Value of Nothing.
  #9  
Old May 26th 17, 06:25 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Alan Browne
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Posts: 12,640
Default The base ("native") ISO of a sensor

On 2017-05-26 13:18, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2017-05-25 18:03, Alfred Molon wrote:
The Olympus E-M1 II has the lowest noise at ISO 64 (at the cost of a bit
less dynamic range) but the highest dynamic range at ISO 200. So what
would be the native or base ISO of the sensor?
How would that be defined?


The "base" would be the ISO where the analog and digital gain are both 1
(0 dB). I've never seen a camera maker publish that. The analog gain
stage is a noise source in itself - even at 0 dB - but unavoidable.

For my cameras (DSLR's) the base appears to be ISO 160 based on various
noise graphs. But frankly anywhere from 100 to 400 appears the same in
normal viewing. 800 and shadow noise is discernible in processing at
100% zoom but invisible in prints or display.


Although this post disputes what I wrote above - a lot to learn there.

http://www.clarkvision.com/articles/...ry/#unity_gain

--
"If war is God's way of teaching Americans geography, then
recession is His way of teaching everyone a little economics."
..Raj Patel, The Value of Nothing.
  #10  
Old May 26th 17, 07:32 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Alfred Molon[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,591
Default The base ("native") ISO of a sensor

In article , Me says...

On 26/05/2017 5:50 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , Sandman
wrote:

The Olympus E-M1 II has the lowest noise at ISO 64 (at the cost of a bit
less dynamic range) but the highest dynamic range at ISO 200. So what
would be the native or base ISO of the sensor?
How would that be defined?

Unless the camera maker doesn't specify this specifically, there is no way
to know when the sensor output is boosted or not.


there is.

Yes.
and also the comment that:
"The Olympus E-M1 II has the lowest noise at ISO 64 (at the cost of a
bit less dynamic range)
makes no sense.

Anyway, as Scotty said - "Ye cannae change laws of physics"

http://photonstophotos.net/Charts/PD...M1%20Mark%20II
But wait - Olympus appears to have done so.
So either they're bull****ting about actual ISO setting (which they've
done before) or bull****ting by applying noise reduction to raw files
(which they've also done before), or bull****ting about both (likely).
So if you /think/ when it's set at ISO 6400 - it actually is, and you
/think/ there's no NR applied to raw files, and are happy with the
result, then enjoy.


.... what have you been smoking?
--
Alfred Molon

Olympus E-series DSLRs and micro 4/3 forum at
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
http://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site
 




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