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#11
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Samsung S760: battery life
On Wed, 20 Aug 2008 08:44:45 GMT, David J Taylor wrote:
I have not commented on the Canon A570 because I have no direct experience of that camera. People can read the normal review sites. My friend has an A630, which does take AA cells, but I don't think that to read the A630 performance into the A570 would be wise. Wise or unwise, it has no bearing on whether you are able to judge what I've said about the A570IS vs. what SMS has said. On the one hand you have him repeatedly saying that the A570IS can only get somewhere from 10 to 20 shots from new alkalines, and this isn't based on his direct knowledge. It's what his 'female relative' told him several months ago while traveling or on vacation with his camera. If you're unable to judge whether this is a reasonable assessment, even though it's an order of magnitude lower than what Canon claims in the A570IS's manual, then it should be clear to virtually anyone that knows that you're not an idiot (and you aren't), that you have an ulterior motive for refusing to comment. This isn't the first time that you've played that "I have no direct experience" card, and for what appear to be similar reasons. You may choose to not believe my results, but I've tested an A570 and after taking 328 shots (half using flash, half with the flash disabled), but not using the LCD display as called for by the CIPA test procedure, I stopped using the flash because the low battery warning indicator was finally displayed. I continued, and when the shot count reached 400, I started taking shots with the flash, but now doing it the CIPA way, using the LCD display to frame the shots. Even though the low battery warning icon was still being displayed, and the battery voltage hadn't dropped to the point which would have triggered the final "Change the batteries" warning message, I saw no need to continue and put a fresh set of alkalines in the camera when 425 shots had been reached. If you wish to make statements about Panasonic cameras that's up to you - I can judge them in the light of my own experience. Ok, here's one. Panasonic makes several compact P&S cameras that use alkaline batteries. If anyone, whether you, SMS or someone whose opinions I value highly ever make the claim that any of these Panasonic cameras is unable to take more than 10 or 20 shots from a fresh pair of alkaline AA cells, and doesn't also indicate that the camera is defective, you bet I'll question that claim, as it would NOT require direct knowledge to appear to be an absurd, completely unreasonable claim. Your own experience isn't limited to cameras that you have direct experience with. You also have read a wide range of posts and replies about all sorts of cameras in newsgroups. Other than defective cameras, I haven't heard any reports of cameras produced by legitimate manufacturers that have such poor battery performance, at least any manufactured within the last 6 or 7 years. I could believe it possible from the really cheap, non-alkaline so-called "heavy duty" AA cells one occasionally sees, but SMS specifically stated that fresh alkalines were used. It could be that his 'female relative' is completely clueless and *thought* that she was using alkalines. At the time SMS posted his biased, bogus message, even though I had no direct experience with the A570 IS at that time, my general, real world experience with cameras indicated that taking his claims at face value would probably be a serious mistake. That you have no opinion or are not willing to share one is telling. Are you familiar with the term "weasel words"? Getting more shots from a set of cells is not a "drawback". I do hope the OP is able to get a better answer from the Samsung documentation than I was. As he's stated that 150 'daytime' shots would meet his needs for his one week holiday, I think that the Samsung S760 (which by at least one report earned 'good battery life' marks) will meet the OP's needs. If not, I can recommend a couple of inexpensive models that when used for similar 'daytime' shots should be able to get 1,000 shots or more from a pair of non-rechargeable batteries. By the way, the "exhausted" AA alkalines that I removed from the A570IS after 425 shots were placed in a battery tester, and both moved the needle well into the green "GOOD" area. So they'll probably be able to power a small portable radio for several weeks, or an LED light for several months. Not bad for a cheap pair (about 25 cents each) of generic Rite-Aid alkalines, which probably could have taken two to three times the number of shots if the flash wasn't used. Can you see that for some people's shooting styles (not including me or thee) that rechargeables, whether NiMH or Li-Ion represent overkill, adding unnecessary complexity and expense? |
#12
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Samsung S760: battery life
ASAAR wrote:
On Wed, 20 Aug 2008 08:44:45 GMT, David J Taylor wrote: I have not commented on the Canon A570 because I have no direct experience of that camera. People can read the normal review sites. My friend has an A630, which does take AA cells, but I don't think that to read the A630 performance into the A570 would be wise. Wise or unwise, it has no bearing on whether you are able to judge what I've said about the A570IS vs. what SMS has said. On the one hand you have him repeatedly saying that the A570IS can only get somewhere from 10 to 20 shots from new alkalines, and this isn't based on his direct knowledge. It's what his 'female relative' told him several months ago while traveling or on vacation with his camera. If you're unable to judge whether this is a reasonable assessment, even though it's an order of magnitude lower than what Canon claims in the A570IS's manual, then it should be clear to virtually anyone that knows that you're not an idiot (and you aren't), that you have an ulterior motive for refusing to comment. This isn't the first time that you've played that "I have no direct experience" card, and for what appear to be similar reasons. If you have a dispute with SMS please take it up with him. I have certainly seen cameras which don't work well with alkaline cells, so I have no immediate reason to disbelieve him. You may choose to not believe my results, but I've tested an A570 and after taking 328 shots (half using flash, half with the flash disabled), but not using the LCD display as called for by the CIPA test procedure, I stopped using the flash because the low battery warning indicator was finally displayed. I continued, and when the shot count reached 400, I started taking shots with the flash, but now doing it the CIPA way, using the LCD display to frame the shots. Even though the low battery warning icon was still being displayed, and the battery voltage hadn't dropped to the point which would have triggered the final "Change the batteries" warning message, I saw no need to continue and put a fresh set of alkalines in the camera when 425 shots had been reached. I haven't said I don't believe your results! If you wish to make statements about Panasonic cameras that's up to you - I can judge them in the light of my own experience. Ok, here's one. Panasonic makes several compact P&S cameras that use alkaline batteries. If anyone, whether you, SMS or someone whose opinions I value highly ever make the claim that any of these Panasonic cameras is unable to take more than 10 or 20 shots from a fresh pair of alkaline AA cells, and doesn't also indicate that the camera is defective, you bet I'll question that claim, as it would NOT require direct knowledge to appear to be an absurd, completely unreasonable claim. Your own experience isn't limited to cameras that you have direct experience with. You also have read a wide range of posts and replies about all sorts of cameras in newsgroups. Other than defective cameras, I haven't heard any reports of cameras produced by legitimate manufacturers that have such poor battery performance, at least any manufactured within the last 6 or 7 years. I could believe it possible from the really cheap, non-alkaline so-called "heavy duty" AA cells one occasionally sees, but SMS specifically stated that fresh alkalines were used. It could be that his 'female relative' is completely clueless and *thought* that she was using alkalines. At the time SMS posted his biased, bogus message, even though I had no direct experience with the A570 IS at that time, my general, real world experience with cameras indicated that taking his claims at face value would probably be a serious mistake. That you have no opinion or are not willing to share one is telling. Are you familiar with the term "weasel words"? If you have dispute with SMS, please take it up directly. Getting more shots from a set of cells is not a "drawback". I do hope the OP is able to get a better answer from the Samsung documentation than I was. As he's stated that 150 'daytime' shots would meet his needs for his one week holiday, I think that the Samsung S760 (which by at least one report earned 'good battery life' marks) will meet the OP's needs. If not, I can recommend a couple of inexpensive models that when used for similar 'daytime' shots should be able to get 1,000 shots or more from a pair of non-rechargeable batteries. By the way, the "exhausted" AA alkalines that I removed from the A570IS after 425 shots were placed in a battery tester, and both moved the needle well into the green "GOOD" area. So they'll probably be able to power a small portable radio for several weeks, or an LED light for several months. Not bad for a cheap pair (about 25 cents each) of generic Rite-Aid alkalines, which probably could have taken two to three times the number of shots if the flash wasn't used. Can you see that for some people's shooting styles (not including me or thee) that rechargeables, whether NiMH or Li-Ion represent overkill, adding unnecessary complexity and expense? If alkalines suit someone, let them use them. I use alkalines, but like you, not in cameras. David |
#13
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Samsung S760: battery life
On Wed, 20 Aug 2008 19:37:03 GMT, David J Taylor wrote:
If you have a dispute with SMS please take it up with him. I have certainly seen cameras which don't work well with alkaline cells, so I have no immediate reason to disbelieve him. Oh, now we're supposed to think that you've never seen any of his dozens of messages stating that he sees none of mine? If you can't see the difference between cameras not working well with alkalines and cameras that can't take more than 10 or 20 shots, especially when you have been told that this is at least an order of magnitude than the manufacturer claims and what I've reported, then you're giving everyone immediate reasons to disbelieve your reasons. I haven't said I don't believe your results! And yet you still maintain that you have no reason to disbelieve SMS's repeated, hyperbolic claims. This is one of those cases where, literally, you can't have it both ways. Even if you couldn't state with 100% certainty that either of us is telling the truth, just as you also can't state with 100% certainty that the sun will rise tomorrow, it's very that you have more than a hunch what makes sense and what doesn't. What will happen and what won't. It's clear that you're going out of your way to avoid stating the obvious. If alkalines suit someone, let them use them. I use alkalines, but like you, not in cameras. Again, you're being oh, so reasonable. Here. Too often though, you come across as a Li-Ion missionary, needing to spread the one true gospel. BTW, update your database. When it comes to lights, many use alkalines, but several use lithium (not Li-Ion) batteries. But when it comes to DSLRs, I use Li-Ion batteries, although I do have an as yet unused battery pack that will accept AA cells. For my P&S cameras (many Fuji and Canon models, a Nikon, and even a Panasonic), nary a Li-Ion battery pack in sight! I'll add one more thing, and you can agree, disagree, ignore or try to puzzle out: The more P&S cameras one owns and uses, the more it makes sense for them to use AA cells instead of Li-Ion battery packs. Hint: The reason has nothing to do with standardization or use in devices other than cameras, which is another matter. |
#14
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Samsung S760: battery life
ASAAR wrote:
On Wed, 20 Aug 2008 19:37:03 GMT, David J Taylor wrote: If you have a dispute with SMS please take it up with him. I have certainly seen cameras which don't work well with alkaline cells, so I have no immediate reason to disbelieve him. Oh, now we're supposed to think that you've never seen any of his dozens of messages stating that he sees none of mine? If you can't see the difference between cameras not working well with alkalines and cameras that can't take more than 10 or 20 shots, especially when you have been told that this is at least an order of magnitude than the manufacturer claims and what I've reported, then you're giving everyone immediate reasons to disbelieve your reasons. I haven't said I don't believe your results! And yet you still maintain that you have no reason to disbelieve SMS's repeated, hyperbolic claims. This is one of those cases where, literally, you can't have it both ways. Even if you couldn't state with 100% certainty that either of us is telling the truth, just as you also can't state with 100% certainty that the sun will rise tomorrow, it's very that you have more than a hunch what makes sense and what doesn't. What will happen and what won't. It's clear that you're going out of your way to avoid stating the obvious. If alkalines suit someone, let them use them. I use alkalines, but like you, not in cameras. Again, you're being oh, so reasonable. Here. Too often though, you come across as a Li-Ion missionary, needing to spread the one true gospel. BTW, update your database. When it comes to lights, many use alkalines, but several use lithium (not Li-Ion) batteries. But when it comes to DSLRs, I use Li-Ion batteries, although I do have an as yet unused battery pack that will accept AA cells. For my P&S cameras (many Fuji and Canon models, a Nikon, and even a Panasonic), nary a Li-Ion battery pack in sight! I'll add one more thing, and you can agree, disagree, ignore or try to puzzle out: The more P&S cameras one owns and uses, the more it makes sense for them to use AA cells instead of Li-Ion battery packs. Hint: The reason has nothing to do with standardization or use in devices other than cameras, which is another matter. ASAAR, Perhaps doesn't see your messages because he has filtered you from his reader? I could understand why! Your ideas about "Li-Ion missionary" are mistaken, I'm afraid, I simply try and help people, as far as possible from my own direct experience, which favours a single rectangular battery, and not multiple cylindrical cells. No mention of the chemistry. I'll get back to you when there are some direct technical facts to discuss. David |
#15
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Samsung S760: battery life
On Thu, 21 Aug 2008 08:01:49 GMT, David J Taylor wrote:
Perhaps doesn't see your messages because he has filtered you from his reader? I could understand why! I'm sure that you do. It makes it easier for him to avoid seeing his mistakes pointed out and his nose rubbed in his lies. Sometimes ignorance really is bliss, and I'm sure that you understand why. Your ideas about "Li-Ion missionary" are mistaken, I'm afraid, I simply try and help people, as far as possible from my own direct experience, which favours a single rectangular battery, and not multiple cylindrical cells. No mention of the chemistry. Yes, you try to help people to accept and share your biases. Sometimes you really are helpful, but I'm afraid that sometimes in your missionary zeal you try to convince people that their stated preferences should be reconsidered when they don't match your own. I'll get back to you when there are some direct technical facts to discuss. Which by an incredible coincidence, assuming that you'll continue to avoid purchasing cameras that use AA batteries, will be *never*, since you often use your "I don't have direct knowledge of ... so I can't (or won't) discuss ..." as a convenient escape hatch that allows you to ignore facts that puncture your sometimes preposterous premises. That's quite a talent you have. If you ever decide to move to the USA, you'd be well qualified for a position that requires evasiveness, such as White House Press Secretary. If that doesn't appeal, maybe there's a Minister of Disinformation vacancy somewhere. And you wonder why your honesty is questioned? At least it bothers you, which indicates the possibility that you have a conscience, unlike some other Li-Ion zealot we know, otherwise you could simply have said "I don't care to discuss this." or not replied. Were you a fan of "Keeping Up Appearances"? |
#16
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Samsung S760: battery life
ASAAR wrote:
On Thu, 21 Aug 2008 08:01:49 GMT, David J Taylor wrote: [] I'll get back to you when there are some direct technical facts to discuss. Which by an incredible coincidence, assuming that you'll continue to avoid purchasing cameras that use AA batteries, will be *never*, since you often use your "I don't have direct knowledge of ... so I can't (or won't) discuss ..." as a convenient escape hatch that allows you to ignore facts that puncture your sometimes preposterous premises. That's quite a talent you have. If you ever decide to move to the USA, you'd be well qualified for a position that requires evasiveness, such as White House Press Secretary. If that doesn't appeal, maybe there's a Minister of Disinformation vacancy somewhere. And you wonder why your honesty is questioned? At least it bothers you, which indicates the possibility that you have a conscience, unlike some other Li-Ion zealot we know, otherwise you could simply have said "I don't care to discuss this." or not replied. Were you a fan of "Keeping Up Appearances"? I see nothing technical to discuss here. [Please rest assured that I have, like many people, no desire to even set foot in the USA today, although I used to, and have visited both coasts in the past.] David |
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