Nikon D70 issues/questions Vs. Canon

In article ,
says...

Oh, for goodness sake!

http://narcissus.dyndns.org/Chris/Proof_For_Cretin.jpg

Canon EOS 5D, 28-135 IS USM @ 28mm. 640 ISO, f/3.5, 1/6 (yes, even *slower*
than you asked for), pointed at a mirror, 1:1 crop from a 12.7 megapixel
image, focused on the front of the lens, mirror-lockup *not* used, and note
that my elbows are hanging in free-space, and I'm not leaning on anything.
Excuse the crappy self-portrait, the noise (had to use 640 ISO to get the
shutter speed somewhere in the discussed range), the messy hair (ran out of
conditioner today), the slowness of the download (1.4 megs over my cable
modem) and the motion blur on my right index finger (I had to press the
shutter-release with *something*).

So yes, IS can equal, if not better what you thought only overpriced 35mm
cameras of the sort frequentlly bought merely as fashion statements can do.
Perhaps it's time to get over it?

That photo is a real rival for Leica quality. Congratulations...

--
DD (everything is temporary)
www.dallasdahms.com

In article , says...
In article ,
says...
What part of basic photography don't you understand?

1/8th of a second handheld is 1/8th of a second, regardless of the
amount of light available to the camera.

Take that same IS lens into a club situation and shoot it at 1/8sec and
show me the results. I'll be waiting here.

I know what you're trying to say, and you're still wrong.

Moving subjects will more often than not be blurry at 1/8th of a second.
NO camera will be able to change that, not even your beloved Leica
rangefinder.

Are you going to do it, or are you going to talk about doing it?

I suppose the world view of Leica M series as being the best possible
solution for low light, slow shutter speed photography is just a myth
about to be broken by a group of fevered Canonites. Yet again.

--
DD (everything is temporary)
www.dallasdahms.com

DD (Rox) wrote:
In article ,
says...
In article ,
DD (Rox) wrote:
In article ,

1/8th of a second handheld is 1/8th of a second, regardless of the
amount of light available to the camera.

Take that same IS lens into a club situation and shoot it at 1/8sec
and show me the results. I'll be waiting here.

What's the mechanism you're proposing which will result in more
camera shake in lower illumination levels, despite the exposure time
remaning constant? Are you suggesting that lowered light levels give
us all a temporary conditioon with symptoms akin to Parkinson's
disease, or something?

Just do it already. Please.

You got caught saying something stupid, Dallas.
1/8th is 1/8th, and your suggestion that light has anything to do with it is
nonsense.
Why not just say "oops" rather than continuing to look silly as you try to
work your way out of it??

You're the big mouth who said he can shoot handheld with an SLR at 1/8
sec (which we now learn is via IS), so go and shoot a performer under
low lights with it. Remember to shoot wide open and lets see how your
shots compare to those taken with a Leica M.

I find it absolutely fascinating that you somehow equate IS with some level
of "cheating."

DD (Rox) wrote:
In article ,

In article ,
says...
What part of basic photography don't you understand?

1/8th of a second handheld is 1/8th of a second, regardless of the
amount of light available to the camera.

Take that same IS lens into a club situation and shoot it at 1/8sec
and show me the results. I'll be waiting here.

I know what you're trying to say, and you're still wrong.

Moving subjects will more often than not be blurry at 1/8th of a
second. NO camera will be able to change that, not even your beloved
Leica rangefinder.

Are you going to do it, or are you going to talk about doing it?

I suppose the world view of Leica M series as being the best possible
solution for low light, slow shutter speed photography is just a myth
about to be broken by a group of fevered Canonites. Yet again.

Since you have the Leica of which you speak, how about showing us these
amazing pics?
Where are they?

DD (Rox) wrote:

Are you going to do it, or are you going to talk about doing it?

I suppose the world view of Leica M series as being the best possible
solution for low light, slow shutter speed photography is just a myth
about to be broken by a group of fevered Canonites. Yet again.

--
DD (everything is temporary)
www.dallasdahms.com

This is your argument? That the world view is Leicas are best for low
light so it must be true, regardless of the evidence?

First off 1/8 of a sec for a 28mm IS lens should be no problem, most
test of IS lens give them about 2 stops advantage over a non IS lens,
so shooting at 1/8 for a IS would be like shooting 1/32 for a non IS
lens. It is true that if people are moving 1/8 will be a problem but
this is true of your Leica as well.

But also consider that a good DSLR can shoot at ISO 1600 and still get
great looking photos, hard to do with a Leica unless you really like
grain.

BTW I do sometimes use mirror lockup when shooting a bit slow on the
shutter speed. The first push of the button locks the mirror the
second takes the photos, pretty easy to frame using this mode. I
should note that I don't have IS lenses and so slow shutter speed is
more of an issue for me then for someone who is using an IS lens.

The Leica had its day, but as you point out "everything is
temporary"

Not many people will give you a hard time if you wish to continue to
use your Leica, but you go on to imply that if someone claims to be
able to get good photos without using a Leica they much be lying, many
will take issue with that.

Scott

Scott W wrote:
DD (Rox) wrote:

Are you going to do it, or are you going to talk about doing it?

I suppose the world view of Leica M series as being the best possible
solution for low light, slow shutter speed photography is just a myth
about to be broken by a group of fevered Canonites. Yet again.

--
DD (everything is temporary)
www.dallasdahms.com

This is your argument? That the world view is Leicas are best for low
light so it must be true, regardless of the evidence?

First off 1/8 of a sec for a 28mm IS lens should be no problem, most
test of IS lens give them about 2 stops advantage over a non IS lens,
so shooting at 1/8 for a IS would be like shooting 1/32 for a non IS
lens. It is true that if people are moving 1/8 will be a problem but
this is true of your Leica as well.

But also consider that a good DSLR can shoot at ISO 1600 and still get
great looking photos, hard to do with a Leica unless you really like
grain.

BTW I do sometimes use mirror lockup when shooting a bit slow on the
shutter speed. The first push of the button locks the mirror the
second takes the photos, pretty easy to frame using this mode. I
should note that I don't have IS lenses and so slow shutter speed is
more of an issue for me then for someone who is using an IS lens.

The Leica had its day, but as you point out "everything is
temporary"

Not many people will give you a hard time if you wish to continue to
use your Leica, but you go on to imply that if someone claims to be
able to get good photos without using a Leica they much be lying, many
will take issue with that.

Funny thing is...DALLAS hasn't even shown any sharp, slow-shutter, hand-held
shots...even with this camera he claims does such amazing things. Leica may
well be a great combo for low light, non-stabilized shooting, but I haven't
seen any evidence that Dallas has managed to utilize this. Again,
Dallas...where are these shots of yours?

In article %Sj7f.3354$UF4.686@fed1read02, "Mark²" mjmorgan(lowest
even number says...

You got caught saying something stupid, Dallas.
1/8th is 1/8th, and your suggestion that light has anything to do with itis
nonsense.
Why not just say "oops" rather than continuing to look silly as you try to
work your way out of it??

I'd like to see the focussing and the sharpness when he uses the "all-
conquering" Canon 28-135mm at 1/8 second in a dimly lit room, wide open.

There is no "oops", just the usual Canonites claiming their equipment is
capable of anything. So far none of you have been able to post anything
comparable to the shot that originated this discussion...but feel free
to continue.

You're the big mouth who said he can shoot handheld with an SLR at 1/8
sec (which we now learn is via IS), so go and shoot a performer under
low lights with it. Remember to shoot wide open and lets see how your
shots compare to those taken with a Leica M.

I find it absolutely fascinating that you somehow equate IS with some level
of "cheating."

This began with me telling Bird Brain why I liked using the M series
because of the low light advantages it offers. The ability to get shots
that you just can't get with an SLR. What its turned into is another of
you lot's feverish "Canon can do anything" threads.

It's entertaining to read though.

--
DD (everything is temporary)
www.dallasdahms.com

In article .com,
says...

This is your argument? That the world view is Leicas are best for low
light so it must be true, regardless of the evidence?

Show me the evidence to the contrary. Show me pictures from the SLR that
shoots wide open at very low hand-held speeds in dimly lit situations
with reasonable ISO speeds (say 400). Oh, and try to use a FOV that is
standard to medium telephoto, viz 50-90mm.

First off 1/8 of a sec for a 28mm IS lens should be no problem, most
test of IS lens give them about 2 stops advantage over a non IS lens,
so shooting at 1/8 for a IS would be like shooting 1/32 for a non IS
lens. It is true that if people are moving 1/8 will be a problem but
this is true of your Leica as well.

But also consider that a good DSLR can shoot at ISO 1600 and still get
great looking photos, hard to do with a Leica unless you really like
grain.

BTW I do sometimes use mirror lockup when shooting a bit slow on the
shutter speed. The first push of the button locks the mirror the
second takes the photos, pretty easy to frame using this mode. I
should note that I don't have IS lenses and so slow shutter speed is
more of an issue for me then for someone who is using an IS lens.

The Leica had its day, but as you point out "everything is
temporary"

Not many people will give you a hard time if you wish to continue to
use your Leica, but you go on to imply that if someone claims to be
able to get good photos without using a Leica they much be lying, many
will take issue with that.

What? Are you now trying to say that I implied that anything shot
without a Leica is never going to make a good picture? You lot are
incredible, you really are!!!

--
DD (everything is temporary)
www.dallasdahms.com

In article tfk7f.3357$UF4.1999@fed1read02, "Mark²" mjmorgan(lowest
even number says...
Scott W wrote:
DD (Rox) wrote:

Are you going to do it, or are you going to talk about doing it?

I suppose the world view of Leica M series as being the best possible
solution for low light, slow shutter speed photography is just a myth
about to be broken by a group of fevered Canonites. Yet again.

--
DD (everything is temporary)
www.dallasdahms.com

This is your argument? That the world view is Leicas are best for low
light so it must be true, regardless of the evidence?

First off 1/8 of a sec for a 28mm IS lens should be no problem, most
test of IS lens give them about 2 stops advantage over a non IS lens,
so shooting at 1/8 for a IS would be like shooting 1/32 for a non IS
lens. It is true that if people are moving 1/8 will be a problem but
this is true of your Leica as well.

But also consider that a good DSLR can shoot at ISO 1600 and still get
great looking photos, hard to do with a Leica unless you really like
grain.

BTW I do sometimes use mirror lockup when shooting a bit slow on the
shutter speed. The first push of the button locks the mirror the
second takes the photos, pretty easy to frame using this mode. I
should note that I don't have IS lenses and so slow shutter speed is
more of an issue for me then for someone who is using an IS lens.

The Leica had its day, but as you point out "everything is
temporary"

Not many people will give you a hard time if you wish to continue to
use your Leica, but you go on to imply that if someone claims to be
able to get good photos without using a Leica they much be lying, many
will take issue with that.

Funny thing is...DALLAS hasn't even shown any sharp, slow-shutter, hand-held
shots...even with this camera he claims does such amazing things. Leica may
well be a great combo for low light, non-stabilized shooting, but I haven't
seen any evidence that Dallas has managed to utilize this. Again,
Dallas...where are these shots of yours?

Mark, you're such a chump!

You even pointed one of these out to me when you had your little pants-
wetting episode over my photos last week! Does your browser not store
URL's?

Grow up a little, will you?

--
DD (everything is temporary)
www.dallasdahms.com

DD (Rox) wrote:
In article tfk7f.3357$UF4.1999@fed1read02, "Mark²" mjmorgan(lowest
even number says...
Scott W wrote:
DD (Rox) wrote:

Are you going to do it, or are you going to talk about doing it?

I suppose the world view of Leica M series as being the best
possible solution for low light, slow shutter speed photography is
just a myth about to be broken by a group of fevered Canonites.
Yet again.

--
DD (everything is temporary)
www.dallasdahms.com

This is your argument? That the world view is Leicas are best for
low light so it must be true, regardless of the evidence?

First off 1/8 of a sec for a 28mm IS lens should be no problem, most
test of IS lens give them about 2 stops advantage over a non IS
lens, so shooting at 1/8 for a IS would be like shooting 1/32 for a
non IS lens. It is true that if people are moving 1/8 will be a
problem but this is true of your Leica as well.

But also consider that a good DSLR can shoot at ISO 1600 and still
get great looking photos, hard to do with a Leica unless you really
like grain.

BTW I do sometimes use mirror lockup when shooting a bit slow on the
shutter speed. The first push of the button locks the mirror the
second takes the photos, pretty easy to frame using this mode. I
should note that I don't have IS lenses and so slow shutter speed is
more of an issue for me then for someone who is using an IS lens.

The Leica had its day, but as you point out "everything is
temporary"

Not many people will give you a hard time if you wish to continue to
use your Leica, but you go on to imply that if someone claims to be
able to get good photos without using a Leica they much be lying,
many will take issue with that.

Funny thing is...DALLAS hasn't even shown any sharp, slow-shutter,
hand-held shots...even with this camera he claims does such amazing
things. Leica may well be a great combo for low light,
non-stabilized shooting, but I haven't seen any evidence that Dallas
has managed to utilize this. Again, Dallas...where are these shots
of yours?

Mark, you're such a chump!

You even pointed one of these out to me when you had your little
pants- wetting episode over my photos last week! Does your browser
not store URL's?

Then you've lost me...
How about pointing to it again? I'm not sure what you're referring to.