Is this true about Canon?

On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 23:59:19 -0500, M-M wrote:

Someone else wrote the following and I'm wondering if it is true:

"Canon for some time has been the faster better sports equipment. Not
all just in auto focus but also frames per second and write speed to the
buffer is also faster. Read the features and compare. There are also
many more lenses in the Canon system. Nikon only does as well as it
does because so many photographers had a large number of Nikon lenses as
the photo world began to change. Canon now has over 80% on the
professional market because of chip size and all the great features. If
you ever use a Canon Camera for just a short while you will see what I
am talking about and you would never look back. Nothing wrong with
Nikon of Fuji they are just that other 20% for the most part, and that
does not make them bad. All of the cameras today make great photographs
as long as you set them the right way. As for Canons auto focus system
everything else is second."

"Read about their ring ultrasonic motor for rapid autofocus. Hold a
Nikon in your hands and then a Canon--and compare the rapidity of
autofocus with a long lens (a Canon white lens)--even to Nikon's own
version of the ring ultrasonic motor."


There is no question that Canon has found its niche among high-speed
sports shooters. But that is only a small part of photography. Those
big white lenses are very visible on the sidelines during the
Superbowl, but percentagewise they are not the mainstream of
photography. Ask people who have used both and you'll find that
most will say that Nikons are generally built better, have better
ergonomics and are simply more of a pleasure to use.

Some pros complain that Nikon does not yet offer a FF 35mm sensor. But
the pro market is just a small segment of the overall camera market.
The fact is that most people simply don't need a FF camera, they only
want one because they've been told they are better. It's interesting
that Olympus has taken the opposite approach by designing an entire
new system around a sensor that is even smaller than the APS / DX
standard.

Canon seems to be the first to come out with new technology, while
Nikon seems to wait for the technology to mature and then implements
it where it makes the most sense. Right now it appears that Nikon has
left the ultra-high end to Canon and is concentrating on eating
Canon's lunch in the low to middle end. They are making excellent
progress on that front, as the D40, D70, D80 and D200 are better than
anything Canon offers in the same price ranges. Pick up a 30D or a
Rebel, then D200 or a D80, you'll immediately appreciate the
difference in Nikon's design philosophy and construction quality.

If I were shooting sports in low light, no question I would use Canon
gear. For everything else, my vote goes toward Nikon. That's why I
switched systems.

Steve

smb wrote:
On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 23:59:19 -0500, M-M wrote:

Someone else wrote the following and I'm wondering if it is true:

"Canon for some time has been the faster better sports equipment. Not
all just in auto focus but also frames per second and write speed to the
buffer is also faster. Read the features and compare. There are also
many more lenses in the Canon system. Nikon only does as well as it
does because so many photographers had a large number of Nikon lenses as
the photo world began to change. Canon now has over 80% on the
professional market because of chip size and all the great features. If
you ever use a Canon Camera for just a short while you will see what I
am talking about and you would never look back. Nothing wrong with
Nikon of Fuji they are just that other 20% for the most part, and that
does not make them bad. All of the cameras today make great photographs
as long as you set them the right way. As for Canons auto focus system
everything else is second."

"Read about their ring ultrasonic motor for rapid autofocus. Hold a
Nikon in your hands and then a Canon--and compare the rapidity of
autofocus with a long lens (a Canon white lens)--even to Nikon's own
version of the ring ultrasonic motor."


There is no question that Canon has found its niche among high-speed
sports shooters. But that is only a small part of photography. Those
big white lenses are very visible on the sidelines during the
Superbowl, but percentagewise they are not the mainstream of
photography. Ask people who have used both and you'll find that
most will say that Nikons are generally built better, have better
ergonomics and are simply more of a pleasure to use.

Some pros complain that Nikon does not yet offer a FF 35mm sensor. But
the pro market is just a small segment of the overall camera market.
The fact is that most people simply don't need a FF camera, they only
want one because they've been told they are better. It's interesting
that Olympus has taken the opposite approach by designing an entire
new system around a sensor that is even smaller than the APS / DX
standard.

Canon seems to be the first to come out with new technology, while
Nikon seems to wait for the technology to mature and then implements
it where it makes the most sense. Right now it appears that Nikon has
left the ultra-high end to Canon and is concentrating on eating
Canon's lunch in the low to middle end. They are making excellent
progress on that front, as the D40, D70, D80 and D200 are better than
anything Canon offers in the same price ranges. Pick up a 30D or a
Rebel, then D200 or a D80, you'll immediately appreciate the
difference in Nikon's design philosophy and construction quality.

If I were shooting sports in low light, no question I would use Canon
gear. For everything else, my vote goes toward Nikon. That's why I
switched systems.

Thanks for such an unbiased summary.

--
lsmft

On Fri, 2 Feb 2007 04:07:17 -0800, smb wrote
(in article ):



Canon seems to be the first to come out with new technology, while
Nikon seems to wait for the technology to mature and then implements
it where it makes the most sense.

Actually, it was Nikon that introduced the first practical DSLR, and it is
Nikon that has made most of the innovations since. Canon's marketing
department would have you believe that leapfrogging Nikon's cameras is
'innovation,' but it is nothing of the kind.

The one thing that Canon did introduce before Nikon was a larger sensor, but
even that was not a Canon first. Kodak beat them to it. If Canon is trying to
emulate Kodak, that is fine with me.


--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

On Feb 2, 12:16 pm, John McWilliams wrote:
smb wrote:

Thanks for such an unbiased summary.

I just wanna know the street value of what he's smoking.

He says, "Sure Canon kills Nikon on the telephoto side. And of
course, Canon does offer full-frame sensors and Nikon does not. And
yes, it is true that Canon is the innovator and Nikon lags behind in
technology. But boy, those cheapo Nikons sure have great ergonomics!"

The truth is that Canon is killing Nikon on every front. Even in the
small P&S market, where Nikon used to have some superior models, Canon
rules it.

Annika1980 wrote:
On Feb 2, 12:16 pm, John McWilliams wrote:
smb wrote:

Thanks for such an unbiased summary.

I just wanna know the street value of what he's smoking.

He says, "Sure Canon kills Nikon on the telephoto side. And of
course, Canon does offer full-frame sensors and Nikon does not. And
yes, it is true that Canon is the innovator and Nikon lags behind in
technology. But boy, those cheapo Nikons sure have great ergonomics!"

The truth is that Canon is killing Nikon on every front. Even in the
small P&S market, where Nikon used to have some superior models, Canon
rules it.

As a long time Canon user, one who "lost" the use of his FD lenses, but
stayed with them thankfully, I hope, and believe, that it isn't true.

Neither company is dominant, and I hope to high heavens that both stick
around and remain very competitive.

We'll all benefit if it is so.

--
John McWilliams

C J Campbell wrote:
On Fri, 2 Feb 2007 04:07:17 -0800, smb wrote
(in article ):



Canon seems to be the first to come out with new technology, while
Nikon seems to wait for the technology to mature and then implements
it where it makes the most sense.

Actually, it was Nikon that introduced the first practical DSLR, and
it is Nikon that has made most of the innovations since. Canon's
marketing department would have you believe that leapfrogging Nikon's
cameras is 'innovation,' but it is nothing of the kind.

The one thing that Canon did introduce before Nikon was a larger
sensor,

One thing?
I don't wish ill on Nikon, but lets be fair...

How about...
Two larger sensor offerings (1.3x and FF)
USM
IS
CMOS breakthrough
fps in DSLRs
DO lenses
First consumer DSLR (D30)
First affordable DSLR (digital Rebel)

Nikon has followed every one of these leads (save for FF, 1.3x and DO)..

I'm glad they're following/catching up, or we'd be paying an even larger
mint for the stuff...


--
Images (Plus Snaps & Grabs) by Mark² at:
www.pbase.com/markuson

On Feb 2, 12:48 pm, C J Campbell
wrote:

The one thing that Canon did introduce before Nikon was a larger sensor, but
even that was not a Canon first. Kodak beat them to it. If Canon is trying to
emulate Kodak, that is fine with me.

Canon makes their own sensors. Nikon gets theirs from Sony.
Enough said.

"Annika1980" wrote in message
oups.com...

I just wanna know the street value of what he's smoking.

The truth is that Canon is killing Nikon on every front. Even in the
small P&S market, where Nikon used to have some superior models, Canon
rules it.

Interesting comment since sales stats say otherwise.

The last info I read indicates that Nikon is now the market leader in
Japan, and the D40 is selling well in North America because it's much
less expensive than the XTi but still competitive for the casual DSLR
user which is the largest market segment. I don't have stats for P&S,
but I doubt Canon "rules" that segment.

From Photomarketing:

"Nikon Corp., Tokyo, Japan, grabbed the top position in the Japanese
DSLR market in December with a market share of 47 percent, thanks to
strong sales of D80 and the new D40, according to the latest report by
BCN. BCN is a market research firm constantly monitoring POS data from
2,680 stores operated by 23 contracted major retailing companies.


And also check this from DPNow with stats from the same BCN source:

http://dpnow.com/3308.html

1. Canon EOS Kiss Digital X --- 27.3% (400D/Digital Rebel XTi)
2. Nikon D80 ------------------ 16.3%
3. Nikon D40 ------------------ 15.5% (new model)
4. Nikon D200 ----------------- 9.1%
5. Sony A100 ------------------ 6.3%
6. Pentax K10D ---------------- 5.3%
7. Nikon D50 ------------------ 4.8%
8. Canon Kiss Digital New ----- 3.3% (350D/Digital Rebel XT)
9. Pentax K100D --------------- 2.9%
10. Canon EOS 30D ------------- 2.5%

On 2 Feb 2007 10:13:51 -0800, "Annika1980" wrote:

On Feb 2, 12:16 pm, John McWilliams wrote:
smb wrote:

Thanks for such an unbiased summary.

I just wanna know the street value of what he's smoking.

He says, "Sure Canon kills Nikon on the telephoto side. And of
course, Canon does offer full-frame sensors and Nikon does not. And
yes, it is true that Canon is the innovator and Nikon lags behind in
technology. But boy, those cheapo Nikons sure have great ergonomics!"

The truth is that Canon is killing Nikon on every front. Even in the
small P&S market, where Nikon used to have some superior models, Canon
rules it.



Actually, Nikon is doing quite well, actually now surpassing Canon in
the Japanese market.

From the Photomarketing.com website:


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Nikon secures top position in the Japanese DSLR market

Nikon Corp., Tokyo, Japan, grabbed the top position in the Japanese
DSLR market in December with a market share of 47 percent, thanks to
strong sales of D80 and the new D40, according to the latest report by
BCN. BCN is a market research firm constantly monitoring POS data from
2,680 stores operated by 23 contracted major retailing companies.

Canon Inc. gave up the lead to Nikon with a market share of 35
percent. Pentax and Sony followed with a market share of 10 percent
and 6 percent, respectively. Canon was the constant leader in the
Japanese DSLR market, for example with a market share of 45 percent in
July and 48 percent in September last year, followed by Nikon (37
percent in July and 33 percent in September) and Pentax (10 percent in
July and 8 percent in September).

In terms of by-model share, however, Canon's Digital Kiss X (digital
Rebel XTi) kept the top spot for 13 weeks consecutively with a 27.3
percent market share in December, followed by Nikon's D80 (16.3
percent), D40 (15.5 percent) and D200 (9.1 percent), reports JPEA
International PEN News Weekly.

Many industry watchers were skeptical when Nikon announced the D40,
saying it would be difficult for Nikon to sell as it hoped in the
market where DSLRs featuring 10-megapixel or more pixel counts are the
mainstream. Contrary to the popular belief, however, the D40
apparently made a good start in the Japanese market, reports PEN News
Weekly."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You refer to Nikon as "cheapo," which simply shows you don't know what
you're talking about. The only individual camera where Canon retains
the market share is the cheapset one they make. Hmmmm...

Ergonomics are very important, don't dismiss that. Nikon is very
much in the forefront of technology, they just apply it in different
ways than Canon does. Right now the two companies are aiming at
different markets. Canon has the full frame market sewed up right
now, but the fact is that the 5D sold rather poorly and they had to
offer huge rebates to get it moving. Why? Because the D200 is a
better camera at a lower price, in spite of the resolution advantage
of the 5D.

My point is that Canon's technological advantages only apply to a
small portion of the camera-buying market. For instance, do YOU shoot
a Canon full frame dslr with a monster IS telephoto? If so, how much
did that set you back, and have you calculated your cost per picture
to have those goodies? :-)

You are correct about the P&S cameras, though, Canon has done a better
job with those. But with dslrs, do an unbiased head to head
comparison between Canon and Nikon at the same price points and you'll
find Nikon really has their act together. I did that even while
having a Canon bias and found that Nikon was best for what I do.

Steve

On Fri, 2 Feb 2007 12:01:50 -0800, "Mark²" mjmorgan(lowest even
number wrote:

C J Campbell wrote:
On Fri, 2 Feb 2007 04:07:17 -0800, smb wrote
(in article ):



Canon seems to be the first to come out with new technology, while
Nikon seems to wait for the technology to mature and then implements
it where it makes the most sense.

Actually, it was Nikon that introduced the first practical DSLR, and
it is Nikon that has made most of the innovations since. Canon's
marketing department would have you believe that leapfrogging Nikon's
cameras is 'innovation,' but it is nothing of the kind.

The one thing that Canon did introduce before Nikon was a larger
sensor,

One thing?
I don't wish ill on Nikon, but lets be fair...

How about...
Two larger sensor offerings (1.3x and FF)
USM
IS
CMOS breakthrough
fps in DSLRs
DO lenses
First consumer DSLR (D30)
First affordable DSLR (digital Rebel)

Nikon has followed every one of these leads (save for FF, 1.3x and DO)..

I'm glad they're following/catching up, or we'd be paying an even larger
mint for the stuff...


True, but you have to balance that with Nikon's innovations:

Standardized 1.5x sensor across all product lines

Outstanding image quality with either CCD or CMOS sensors

FPS in affordable dslrs

First "prosumer" DSLR at a truly affordable price (D70)

First dslr with true pro level features and build at an affordable
price (D200)

First sub-$1000 dslr with pro features (D80)

First truly affordable entry level dslr with image quality of their
more expensive models (D40)

Outstanding consistency and quality across their lens line without
having to stratify between "L" vs "non-L" lenses.

Kit lenses with optical quality that rivals higher priced ones

Outstanding ergonomics and real-world features like auto ISO, auto
contrast, etc.

Etc.

Canon may have been first with IS and USM, but Nikon's versions work
just as well or better.

The one thing that Canon is truly better at than Nikon is marketing.
Cameras with goofy names like "Rebel" (or "Kiss" in Japan) appeal to
the masses. Canon's other consumer and office equipment businesses
also give them better name recognition among non-photographers.


Steve