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What exactly is different inside a lens in Macro mode?



 
 
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  #21  
Old June 13th 18, 03:18 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
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Posts: 24,165
Default What exactly is different inside a lens in Macro mode?

In article ,
Whisky-dave wrote:

I doubt his P&S will work with a closeup lens anyway as it doesnlt
have
any moving elemnts so would be very difficult to focus.

the lenses on p&s cameras definitely have moving elements,

Not all of them do, the cheaper ones don't.


just about all of them do, including the cheaper ones.


His galaxy7 doesn';t which is what he was talking about.


a galaxy 7 isn't a p&s.

some do consider it to be a pos, however.
  #22  
Old June 13th 18, 04:03 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
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Posts: 24,165
Default What exactly is different inside a lens in Macro mode?

In article ,
Whisky-dave wrote:

I doubt his P&S will work with a closeup lens anyway as it doesnlt
have
any moving elemnts so would be very difficult to focus.

the lenses on p&s cameras definitely have moving elements,

Not all of them do, the cheaper ones don't.

just about all of them do, including the cheaper ones.

His galaxy7 doesn';t which is what he was talking about.


a galaxy 7 isn't a p&s.


but he uses it as a P&S in fact most P&S camera have more control than a
smartphone camera has.


nope.

smartphones can do *much* more than any p&s camera could ever dream of,
other than having an optical zoom lens.
  #23  
Old June 13th 18, 07:23 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Neil[_9_]
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Posts: 521
Default What exactly is different inside a lens in Macro mode?

On 6/13/2018 11:03 AM, nospam wrote:

smartphones can do *much* more than any p&s camera could ever dream of,
other than having an optical zoom lens.

That depends on what one considers a p&s camera. Generalizations are
useless. There are some DSLRs that have less capability than what some
people would call "p&s" cameras because they have better lenses, more
control options, and their limitations may not matter for the intended use.

--
best regards,

Neil
  #24  
Old June 13th 18, 07:56 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
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Posts: 24,165
Default What exactly is different inside a lens in Macro mode?

In article , Neil
wrote:


smartphones can do *much* more than any p&s camera could ever dream of,
other than having an optical zoom lens.


That depends on what one considers a p&s camera.


the normal and widely accepted definition, i.e., not an slr or
mirrorless and not a phone.

Generalizations are
useless.


that is a generalization itself, so therefore, by your own definition,
it's useless.

the reality is that generalizations are useful, but one must understand
what the message is and not try to find a lone exception just to argue.

There are some DSLRs that have less capability than what some
people would call "p&s" cameras because they have better lenses, more
control options, and their limitations may not matter for the intended use.


or their limitations prevent the intended use or the difference in
quality isn't anything anyone would ever notice.

the comparison was not between an slr and a p&s, but rather a
smartphone and p&s.

someone choosing to use a p&s or a smartphone isn't interested in
better lenses, more control options, etc.

the reality is that almost all cameras sold today are smartphones, with
more than 85% of photos taken with smartphones and nearly all photos
viewed on phones, often from a service that downgrades quality for
bandwidth reasons (which won't be noticed on a phone).

no single camera is perfect in every situation.

as the saying goes, the best camera is the one you have with you.
  #25  
Old June 13th 18, 11:39 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Neil[_9_]
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Posts: 521
Default What exactly is different inside a lens in Macro mode?

On 6/13/2018 2:56 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , Neil
wrote:


smartphones can do *much* more than any p&s camera could ever dream of,
other than having an optical zoom lens.


That depends on what one considers a p&s camera.


the normal and widely accepted definition, i.e., not an slr or
mirrorless and not a phone.

That includes a lot of cameras that are much better than smartphones and
even some DSLRs, so it makes your statement false.

Generalizations are
useless.


that is a generalization itself, so therefore, by your own definition,
it's useless.

It is when it's troll-snipped like that. The context is in refutation of
your usage, which, as once again, you've shown that your usage of "p&s"
is false.

the reality is that generalizations are useful, but one must understand
what the message is and not try to find a lone exception just to argue.

Which is exactly what your troll-snipping accomplishes, so you should
follow your own advice.

There are some DSLRs that have less capability than what some
people would call "p&s" cameras because they have better lenses, more
control options, and their limitations may not matter for the intended use.


or their limitations prevent the intended use or the difference in
quality isn't anything anyone would ever notice.

Which is the opposite of what I stated, so I don't know why you want to
argue about it.

the comparison was not between an slr and a p&s, but rather a
smartphone and p&s.

someone choosing to use a p&s or a smartphone isn't interested in
better lenses, more control options, etc.

False. Someone choosing a good quality p&s probably knows what they're
buying and what they'll do with it.

--
best regards,

Neil
  #26  
Old June 14th 18, 02:11 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
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Posts: 24,165
Default What exactly is different inside a lens in Macro mode?

In article ,
Whisky-dave wrote:


but he uses it as a P&S in fact most P&S camera have more control than a
smartphone camera has.


nope.

smartphones can do *much* more than any p&s camera could ever dream of,


A bit of a false statement and irrelivant.


not at all.

other than having an optical zoom lens.


There's no reason a smartphone couldn't have an optical zoom, other thatn it
increases the cost and would be a weak point of failure in use.


the main reasons are that it would be significantly thicker, more
expensive and that there is very little demand for it. there's also the
problem that it will be obsolete in less than 2 years.

despite that, there have been a couple of phones that did, and not
surprisingly, they were commercial failures.

https://s7d2.scene7.com/is/image/Sam...c105azwaatt-60
0x600-C1-052016?$product-details-jpg$

https://www.dpreview.com/news/222432...zoom-moto-mod-
hands-on-preview

There's no reason a P&S couldn't have GPS or the ability to be used as a phone.


some do have gps, but there's no point in making a p&s camera into a
phone, especially when the cameras in modern smartphones are as good or
better.
  #27  
Old June 14th 18, 02:36 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24,165
Default What exactly is different inside a lens in Macro mode?

In article , Neil
wrote:

smartphones can do *much* more than any p&s camera could ever dream of,
other than having an optical zoom lens.

That depends on what one considers a p&s camera.


the normal and widely accepted definition, i.e., not an slr or
mirrorless and not a phone.

That includes a lot of cameras that are much better than smartphones and
even some DSLRs, so it makes your statement false.


my statement *cant* be false since it references the standard industry
definition.

https://www.lifewire.com/difference-...t-and-shoot-49
3178
A point and shoot camera is sometimes called a fixed lens camera,
because the point and shoot cannot change lenses. The lenses are
built directly into the camera body. A point and shoot camera also is
very easy to use, as it doesn't offer quite the level of manual
control options that a DSLR camera offers, which is where it receives
its name. You just point the camera at the subject and shoot in fully
automatic mode.

Camera manufacturers are cutting back on the number of point and
shoot cameras they create, as the cameras on smartphones are
improving to the point where people would rather carry the smartphone
alone, rather than carrying a smartphone and a digital camera.*

apparently you want to make up your own definitions to suit your
agenda. good luck with that.

Generalizations are
useless.


that is a generalization itself, so therefore, by your own definition,
it's useless.

It is when it's troll-snipped like that. The context is in refutation of
your usage, which, as once again, you've shown that your usage of "p&s"
is false.


nothing was snipped and my statement is not false.

further, you resorting to calling it 'troll snip' is an ad hominem.

the reality is that generalizations are useful, but one must understand
what the message is and not try to find a lone exception just to argue.

Which is exactly what your troll-snipping accomplishes, so you should
follow your own advice.


i'm not the one trying to find an exception.

There are some DSLRs that have less capability than what some
people would call "p&s" cameras because they have better lenses, more
control options, and their limitations may not matter for the intended use.


or their limitations prevent the intended use or the difference in
quality isn't anything anyone would ever notice.

Which is the opposite of what I stated, so I don't know why you want to
argue about it.


you are claiming that there are situations in which an slr is a better
choice.

that was never in dispute, nor was this about slrs in the first place.

and since you like generalizations and exceptions, there are some
smartphones which can take higher quality photos than some slrs.

the comparison was not between an slr and a p&s, but rather a
smartphone and p&s.

someone choosing to use a p&s or a smartphone isn't interested in
better lenses, more control options, etc.


False. Someone choosing a good quality p&s probably knows what they're
buying and what they'll do with it.


it's not false and people *aren't* buying p&s cameras anymore. that's
reality.

smartphones have slaughtered the p&s segment, and for very good reason.

as i said, a smartphone can do better in nearly every case, except for
needing a superzoom lens, which is rare, and even that is being eroded.
  #28  
Old June 14th 18, 03:35 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Neil[_9_]
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Posts: 521
Default What exactly is different inside a lens in Macro mode?

On 6/14/2018 9:36 AM, nospam wrote:
In article , Neil
wrote:

smartphones can do *much* more than any p&s camera could ever dream of,
other than having an optical zoom lens.

That depends on what one considers a p&s camera.

the normal and widely accepted definition, i.e., not an slr or
mirrorless and not a phone.

That includes a lot of cameras that are much better than smartphones and
even some DSLRs, so it makes your statement false.


my statement *cant* be false since it references the standard industry
definition.

https://www.lifewire.com/difference-...t-and-shoot-49
3178
A point and shoot camera is sometimes called a fixed lens camera,
because the point and shoot cannot change lenses. The lenses are
built directly into the camera body. A point and shoot camera also is
very easy to use, as it doesn't offer quite the level of manual
control options that a DSLR camera offers, which is where it receives
its name. You just point the camera at the subject and shoot in fully
automatic mode.

Camera manufacturers are cutting back on the number of point and
shoot cameras they create, as the cameras on smartphones are
improving to the point where people would rather carry the smartphone
alone, rather than carrying a smartphone and a digital camera.

apparently you want to make up your own definitions to suit your
agenda. good luck with that.

I have more than one fixed-lens camera that has better lenses and more
control than any smartphone I've seen and more than a Canon DSLR that I
own; a Sony with Zeiss lens that is over a decade old, a Panasonic with
Leica lens (also aged) and Olympus TG-4. They all produce images as good
as or better than the Canon and Nikon DSLRs that I have. They have their
limitations but it isn't their performance, so I don't have a definition
for "p&s" that can be generally applied to the kinds of comments you've
made.

--
best regards,

Neil
  #29  
Old June 14th 18, 07:50 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24,165
Default What exactly is different inside a lens in Macro mode?

In article , Neil
wrote:

smartphones can do *much* more than any p&s camera could ever dream of,
other than having an optical zoom lens.

That depends on what one considers a p&s camera.

the normal and widely accepted definition, i.e., not an slr or
mirrorless and not a phone.

That includes a lot of cameras that are much better than smartphones and
even some DSLRs, so it makes your statement false.


my statement *cant* be false since it references the standard industry
definition.

https://www.lifewire.com/difference-...t-and-shoot-49
3178
A point and shoot camera is sometimes called a fixed lens camera,
because the point and shoot cannot change lenses. The lenses are
built directly into the camera body. A point and shoot camera also is
very easy to use, as it doesn't offer quite the level of manual
control options that a DSLR camera offers, which is where it receives
its name. You just point the camera at the subject and shoot in fully
automatic mode.

Camera manufacturers are cutting back on the number of point and
shoot cameras they create, as the cameras on smartphones are
improving to the point where people would rather carry the smartphone
alone, rather than carrying a smartphone and a digital camera.

apparently you want to make up your own definitions to suit your
agenda. good luck with that.

I have more than one fixed-lens camera that has better lenses and more
control than any smartphone I've seen and more than a Canon DSLR that I
own; a Sony with Zeiss lens that is over a decade old, a Panasonic with
Leica lens (also aged) and Olympus TG-4. They all produce images as good
as or better than the Canon and Nikon DSLRs that I have. They have their
limitations but it isn't their performance, so I don't have a definition
for "p&s" that can be generally applied to the kinds of comments you've
made.


now go try editing your photos *on* your camera, including selective
focus or portrait lighting *after* the shot. try shooting 4k videos and
editing them *on* the camera. or shoot panoramas without having to
manually stitch individual photos.

once all that's done, then upload the results to the 'net from anywhere
there's cellular service or wifi.

and that's just for starters.
  #30  
Old June 15th 18, 12:08 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Neil[_9_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 521
Default What exactly is different inside a lens in Macro mode?

On 6/14/2018 2:50 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , Neil
wrote:

smartphones can do *much* more than any p&s camera could ever dream of,
other than having an optical zoom lens.

That depends on what one considers a p&s camera.

the normal and widely accepted definition, i.e., not an slr or
mirrorless and not a phone.

That includes a lot of cameras that are much better than smartphones and
even some DSLRs, so it makes your statement false.

my statement *cant* be false since it references the standard industry
definition.

https://www.lifewire.com/difference-...t-and-shoot-49
3178
A point and shoot camera is sometimes called a fixed lens camera,
because the point and shoot cannot change lenses. The lenses are
built directly into the camera body. A point and shoot camera also is
very easy to use, as it doesn't offer quite the level of manual
control options that a DSLR camera offers, which is where it receives
its name. You just point the camera at the subject and shoot in fully
automatic mode.

Camera manufacturers are cutting back on the number of point and
shoot cameras they create, as the cameras on smartphones are
improving to the point where people would rather carry the smartphone
alone, rather than carrying a smartphone and a digital camera.

apparently you want to make up your own definitions to suit your
agenda. good luck with that.

I have more than one fixed-lens camera that has better lenses and more
control than any smartphone I've seen and more than a Canon DSLR that I
own; a Sony with Zeiss lens that is over a decade old, a Panasonic with
Leica lens (also aged) and Olympus TG-4. They all produce images as good
as or better than the Canon and Nikon DSLRs that I have. They have their
limitations but it isn't their performance, so I don't have a definition
for "p&s" that can be generally applied to the kinds of comments you've
made.


now go try editing your photos *on* your camera, including selective
focus or portrait lighting *after* the shot. try shooting 4k videos and
editing them *on* the camera. or shoot panoramas without having to
manually stitch individual photos.

once all that's done, then upload the results to the 'net from anywhere
there's cellular service or wifi.

and that's just for starters.

You're dancing again. None of those are CAMERA functions, they're
editing functions and have nothing to do with image quality. Keep it up,
and you'll be back where you were when you claimed that airplanes didn't
have brakes and there were no cameras with interchangeable film and
digital backs.

--
best regards,

Neil
 




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