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Windows 10 update wipes out files and photos



 
 
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  #161  
Old October 18th 18, 04:24 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
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Posts: 24,165
Default Windows 10 update wipes out files and photos

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

you even commented on the various suggestions, so you have full
knowledge of the existence of the post.

in other words, *you* are the one who is evading.

And you will go on arguing like this when if you really had given me a
clear explanation you would direct me to it or quote it.

i did give a clear explanation, which you responded to. don't blame
others if you don't know what you've said.

What do you think was your clear explanation? Come on, give me a
message ID.


read your own posts.

it's not my fault you're senile.


Nor have I stopped beating my wife.


as well you shouldn't.

How about demonstrating your non-senility by recalling the post where
you told me the best way to send someone 4GB of photographs.

Come on! I bet you can't.


i can.
  #162  
Old October 18th 18, 04:24 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
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Posts: 24,165
Default Windows 10 update wipes out files and photos

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

Macs don;t have obscure C drives, or D drives they ahve names and can
be
given any name just loke you'd name a child.

I have C and D, also known as System and User. That naming system
predates both Mac and Dos.

that's not a naming system.

I named them. That's been my naming system for most of the last 30
years.


no. you chose a drive letter based on convention and physical port.
that's *not* a name, nor can you have two of the same letter.


Wrong again. Windows named the drives C and D. I nmaed them System and
Userdisc.


not 30 years ago, you didn't, but despite that, it's nowhere near as
flexible or as powerful as disk naming on a mac.

for example, a mac would ask for a floppy by name if it wasn't the one
in the drive. for servers, it would auto-mount them by name, requesting
login credentials if needed.

deviating from that convention causes all sorts of problems, especially
windows, which assumes c: is the boot drive.


Which is why I didn't change it.


so you didn't name it.

move the c: drive to another computer in an external enclosure. it's no
longer c:, as that other computer has its own c: drive. so much for the
name you supposedly gave it.

the mac was the first computer to let the user name disks anything they
wanted.


Not quite so. I was doing it with discs for my Cromemco back about the
time the Apple][ was emerging. I seem to recall that Unix required
volume names almost from the outset.


you recall wrong, and cromemco was not a mass market computer anyway.
  #163  
Old October 18th 18, 04:24 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
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Posts: 24,165
Default Windows 10 update wipes out files and photos

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

the ad even states 'the size may vary on some other printers'.

that they included a disclaimer is a very big clue.

you might have been impressed with it enough to break from your illicit
piracy habits, but the manufacturer even admits it's *not* an exact
match for what came out of the printer.

If that is your definition of WYSIWYG then modern Apple and Windows
systems are not WYSIWYG in that what comes out of the printer is
rarely an exact match for what you see on the screen. And remember, it
was you, just now, introduce the need for an *exact* match.


wrong. nothing has been introduced. i said that the design of mac os
was the first mainstream computer designed with wysiwyg built into the
os itself (i.e., every app) and that what dos did could only be an
approximation which varied depending on all sorts of factors.


In Message-ID: you wrote:

"the mac was the first mainstream computer to do wysiwyg. all
drawing to the screen used the *same* graphics apis as drawing to
the printer, so whatever was on screen was *exactly* what would
be on paper, regardless of font, size, face or embedded
graphics.the mac was the first mainstream computer to do wysiwyg.
all drawing to the screen used the *same* graphics apis as
drawing to the printer, so whatever was on screen was *exactly*
what would be on paper, regardless of font, size, face or
embedded graphics."

Note your use of 'exactly' and 'exact'. Without having to go back and
quote you can see above where you disqualify Fontasy on the grounds
that "the manufacturer even admits it's *not* an exact match for what
came out of the printer".

For this argument you seem to be requiring that screen pixel pitch and
printer dpi be the same. If this argument is going to hold then you
will have to disqualify virtually every computer made today from being
able to claim WYSIWYG.


you are once again trying to turn this into a semantic argument.

no two of anything are 100% exact.

the point is that the mac was a *lot* closer than anything dos could
possibly do, for all sorts of reasons, only one of which is mentioned
above.

all things considered, what dos did was pretty good given the numerous
limitations of the hardware and software, however, it was not as good
as what the mac could do out of the box.

tl;dr anyone who claims dos can do wysiwyg never used a mac.

one of the key features of the macintosh was wysiwyg as part of the os
itself, which means *all* apps are wysiwyg, and nearly two years before
that ad ran.

and while you were fussing with dot-matrix printers, the mac was
printing wysiwyg to the laserwriter at its native resolution.

Laserwriter was 300 dpi while the resolution of the screen of the
classic Macintosh 512x342 on a 9" screen which equals about 68
pixels/inch. Using the definition you used to disqualify Fontasy on
DOS as WYSIWYG the classic MacIntosh was not WYSIWYG either.


wrong. the size was the same, as was the layout, just at a higher
resolution.


And the original Laserwriter used Postscript fonts which were not
bitmaps but used the PS graphics primitives to draw glyphs as curves,
which can then be rendered at any resolution. This was not the system
used by the MacIntosh with the result that (as you say below) what you
got was not the same as what you had originally seen.


it could use either bitmapped or postscript fonts, the latter of which
along with graphics primitives (shapes, curves, patterns etc.) were
rendered at a higher resolution than what the mac's display could show.
the result was *better* than what was on screen.

do not tell me how macs of the day (or even now) worked. you know less
than what i remember.

it was wygibtwys, what you get is better than what you see.

once again, you don't understand something and choose to argue.


All I'm doing is pinning you down on the ever-shifting ground of your
arguments.


nothing is shifting, except your own lack of understanding.

do not blame me for that.

oh, and the laserwriter had appletalk networking built in. multiple
macs and laserwriters could be networked together using ordinary
telephone cord, which was already in the walls. not only any app, but
any mac on the network could print wysiwyg. nothing on the pc side came
anywhere close to that for many years.


Yep. And that enhanced its WYSIWYG abilities. Please try and stay on
the subject.


it's exactly on subject, and it did enhance its abilities.

a department, or even an entire company, could share a single
laserwriter (or more if needed), where everyone could produce high
quality output.
  #164  
Old October 18th 18, 11:56 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Carlos E.R.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 278
Default Windows 10 update wipes out files and photos

On 13/10/2018 06.26, nospam wrote:
In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

I know people that do not know how to copy files to/from an usb
stick.

one need not know how to do that for backups to occur.

Ah? And how will that person do the backup? The backup has to go
somewhere. Or are you doing the backup to same disk?

automatic backups, without the user having to do anything special.

Yes yes yes. But you are not saying where are those automatic backups
stored.

either the cloud or an external hard drive. all the user needs to do is
enable backups, which is trivial.

They don't know what an external hard drive is, don't have one, and need
hours of training on how to use it. Similarly with the cloud, but even
worse because their internet is slow, and wifi is also slow.

there is no training. plug it in, click a button. done.


My sister has used Apple computers for many many years. I sent her a
batch of photographs (JPG) on a USB stick and despite seeking help
from her neighbours she never managed to view the photographs. In the
beginning she had not the faintest idea of what to do with the USB
stick. I am sure she is not alone.


that has nothing to do with backups, the topic under discussion.


Of course it has!

You have to store the backup somewhere!


however, it does further the point that people incorrectly assume
computers are hard to use, which requires technical skills and
extensive training.


On the contrary. It proves that there are people that need training to
do what we consider simple things.


you should also have known that your own sister would not know what to
do with a usb stick. why even send her one in the first place?


No, because we can not know that till we try. And we have difficulties
getting down to their level - as proved by you not understanding.


the easiest solution would have been to use photo sharing, then the
photos would have appeared on her devices without her needing to do
anything special, including an apple tv if she has one.


That also needs training. *Any* new thing needs training with these kind
of people, because computer are not at all intuitive. Computer are easy
once you manage beyond the curve, but till you do, it is climbing a
steep mountain.

If you live in a circle of people that manage well with computers, you
can hardly understand the problems they people that don't have.

Ah, and tablets are just as hard, I have to explain each application tap
by tap, and they take notes in paper.

Photo sharing, you say. Well, I explained Google plus and the Photo app
to some people. Now G+ is being killed, and I have to find a new method
for us. And explain it to them.


another option would have been to email or text the photos, or upload
them to a photo sharing site and then send her the links. it's not as
simple or as elegant, but it would have worked.


It also needs more work on our side. And maybe we do not want to upload
to a sharing site.

I can not send my 20 MB photos (each) on email, except one photo per
email, or first I have to convert them to a smaller size, which is an
effort on my side, and then they will not print that well as compared to
sending the original in a stick.

--
Cheers, Carlos.
  #165  
Old October 18th 18, 12:09 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Carlos E.R.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 278
Default Windows 10 update wipes out files and photos

On 14/10/2018 02.57, nospam wrote:
In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

I know people that do not know how to copy files to/from an usb
stick.

one need not know how to do that for backups to occur.

Ah? And how will that person do the backup? The backup has to go
somewhere. Or are you doing the backup to same disk?

automatic backups, without the user having to do anything special.

Yes yes yes. But you are not saying where are those automatic backups
stored.

either the cloud or an external hard drive. all the user needs to do
is
enable backups, which is trivial.

They don't know what an external hard drive is, don't have one, and need
hours of training on how to use it. Similarly with the cloud, but even
worse because their internet is slow, and wifi is also slow.

there is no training. plug it in, click a button. done.

My sister has used Apple computers for many many years. I sent her a
batch of photographs (JPG) on a USB stick and despite seeking help
from her neighbours she never managed to view the photographs. In the
beginning she had not the faintest idea of what to do with the USB
stick. I am sure she is not alone.

that has nothing to do with backups, the topic under discussion.


Of course it has.


sending someone a usb stick full of photos has nothing to do with
backups.


Of course it has. You are very thick headed!

Where will they do backups? In an USB stick? In an external hard disk?
On a networked disk? First, they don't have any. They don't know how to
purchase one. Then they don't know how to use one.

No, "it is plug and play" does not work. I have to go there, and say:
connect this here, this here, the plug in this manner in this socket.
Don't move the disk while powered. Wait till Windows say (interrupt:
what is windows?) that a new device has been found, what to do with it.
Click on here. Then click on here. If you see a warning like this, do this.

Item by single item, one by one. And be prepared to answer any
difficulty by phone.

You may say that a Mac would be easier. Maybe, but they are harder for
me, and they need someone to ask things.



I was illustrating how helpless untrained people can
be when faced with anything but the most basic of tasks.


what it illustrates is that computers are too complex for most people.

that continues to improve, but for some reason, many people are
fighting it.

however, it does further the point that people incorrectly assume
computers are hard to use, which requires technical skills and
extensive training.


For her, they are. Anything much beyond facebook or email is terra
icognito.


then you should have used facebook or email.

you chose the wrong method and are blaming her.

you should also have known that your own sister would not know what to
do with a usb stick. why even send her one in the first place?


Why should I? We have lived in different countries for 60 years.


because she's your sister.

it's one thing if you sent it to a random unknown person, but you
should know that your sister would be confused with a usb stick full of
photos.


Not necessarily, if living far from one another.


the easiest solution would have been to use photo sharing, then the
photos would have appeared on her devices without her needing to do
anything special, including an apple tv if she has one.

another option would have been to email or text the photos, or upload
them to a photo sharing site and then send her the links. it's not as
simple or as elegant, but it would have worked.


4GB?


doesn't matter, although texting would not be ideal.


Of course it matters, these people may have a crap ADSL.

Texting? I can't text any photo, it costs half an euro each.

--
Cheers, Carlos.
  #166  
Old October 18th 18, 12:10 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Carlos E.R.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 278
Default Windows 10 update wipes out files and photos

On 14/10/2018 15.49, nospam wrote:
In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:


They don't know what an external hard drive is, don't have one, and
need hours of training on how to use it. Similarly with the cloud, but
even worse because their internet is slow, and wifi is also slow.

there is no training. plug it in, click a button. done.

My sister has used Apple computers for many many years. I sent her a
batch of photographs (JPG) on a USB stick and despite seeking help
from her neighbours she never managed to view the photographs. In the
beginning she had not the faintest idea of what to do with the USB
stick. I am sure she is not alone.

that has nothing to do with backups, the topic under discussion.

Of course it has.

sending someone a usb stick full of photos has nothing to do with
backups.


In this case it has everything to do with computer users who cannot
master anything above the basics, whether it is using backups or
something as complicated as plugging in and viewing the contents of a
USB memory stick.


automatic backups and manual manipulation of files on a usb stick are
two very different tasks. one has no user interaction and the other is
completely manual.


No, both need to plug in an USB stick.


I was illustrating how helpless untrained people can
be when faced with anything but the most basic of tasks.

what it illustrates is that computers are too complex for most people.


Which side of the argument are you on. Please make up your mind.


it hasn't changed.



--
Cheers, Carlos.
  #167  
Old October 18th 18, 12:14 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Carlos E.R.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 278
Default Windows 10 update wipes out files and photos

On 14/10/2018 23.36, nospam wrote:
In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

They don't know what an external hard drive is, don't have one,
and
need hours of training on how to use it. Similarly with the
cloud, but
even worse because their internet is slow, and wifi is also slow.

there is no training. plug it in, click a button. done.

My sister has used Apple computers for many many years. I sent her a
batch of photographs (JPG) on a USB stick and despite seeking help
from her neighbours she never managed to view the photographs. In the
beginning she had not the faintest idea of what to do with the USB
stick. I am sure she is not alone.

that has nothing to do with backups, the topic under discussion.

Of course it has.

sending someone a usb stick full of photos has nothing to do with
backups.

In this case it has everything to do with computer users who cannot
master anything above the basics, whether it is using backups or
something as complicated as plugging in and viewing the contents of a
USB memory stick.

automatic backups and manual manipulation of files on a usb stick are
two very different tasks. one has no user interaction and the other is
completely manual.


Viewing files on a USB stick is a simple task compared with setting up
an automatic backup.


false.

as i said before, setting up automatic backups is no more difficult
than connecting a hard drive and clicking a button:
https://support.apple.com/library/co...are/images/en_
US/osx/tm_new_drive.png


Ah, there! Connecting a hard drive! Now we get to things.

What is a hard drive? Do we have one?
How do we connect it? Explain it easy.

Ah, and don't forget to explain that the disk must not be unpowered
before properly telling windows to remove the disk. What may happen if
they do, and what to do if they do.


--
Cheers, Carlos.
  #168  
Old October 18th 18, 12:20 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Carlos E.R.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 278
Default Windows 10 update wipes out files and photos

On 15/10/2018 03.08, nospam wrote:
In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

Viewing files on a USB stick is a simple task compared with setting up
an automatic backup.

false.

as i said before, setting up automatic backups is no more difficult
than connecting a hard drive and clicking a button:

https://support.apple.com/library/co...care/images/en
_US/osx/tm_new_drive.png

Thank you for offering an Apple-only solution to the solution of a
problem involving Windows 10.

backups are not a platform specific issue.


The presumed ease of use of Time Machine is.


it's not presumed. it *is* easier.

just because windows lacks something as easy to use as time machine
doesn't mean it does not exist.


If Windows lacks it there in point in you citing it.


that sentence does not make sense as written.

In any case, I am quite certain my Apple-only sister would say "What
is Time Machine" and then have to be shown in detail how to use it.

nope. she just needs to connect an external drive and click the 'use as
backup disk' button. it really is that simple.


What makes you think that if she couldn't use a USB memory stick she
could connect an external drive and click the 'use backup' button
(what use back up button?).


this isn't specifically about her, but it really isn't very difficult.
if she can't handle it, someone else in the household can.


Who exactly? Do you know that there is somebody, and that that person knows?


how did she manage to plug the computer into mains power and set it up?
that is a *lot* more steps than for time machine.


Because somebody took the trouble to explain and show the steps, long
ago. For example their kids, while they were kids. Now they have their
own families and do not come often. For example.

Set it up? I forgot, they did not.


as i also said, there are additional options if one wants to tweak
things, such as choosing a different destination and/or excluding
certain files, but that's not required.

I am sure she would be quite mystified by the concept of destinations
in this context.

what part of "that's not required" is not clear?


The part where you wrote about it. What would a person such as my
sister do when confronted with the apparent need to choose a
destination?


she won't see that unless she goes looking for it.

as i said:
what part of "that's not required" is not clear?


you are mistakenly assuming it's more difficult to use than it actually
is because you don't know any different.

viewing photos on a usb stick requires navigating the file system and
using at least two apps, versus zero.

Time Machine is not an app?

no. it's part of the operating system.


Are you saying that Apples needs at least two apps to enable viewing
of images on a USB memory stick?


nope. i'm saying *all* computers do, one to access and/or copy the
individual files within the file system and another to view the photos.

people ignore the fact that windows file explorer and mac finder are
apps.

once enabled, it runs without any user interaction.

In the case of my sister, it required several emails of instruction
before she could even plug it in. From then on it got worse. I am
unfamiliar with Apples and it turned out that in spite of using them
for more than 20 years, so too is my sister. In fact it is my
experience that many casual users of computers of all kinds do not
understand how they work but operate them by rote and literally have
to be taught before they can do anything new.

in other words, a lot more complex than automatic backups.


... no more complex once the proper use has been demonstrated.


that proper use must be demonstrated is clear proof that the product is
more complex than it needs to be.

you are making excuses for a poor design.

I was illustrating how helpless untrained people can
be when faced with anything but the most basic of tasks.

what it illustrates is that computers are too complex for most
people.

Which side of the argument are you on. Please make up your mind.

it hasn't changed.

Damn! I hoped the new one was an improvement.

no, you hoped that something changed it so you could argue about that
too.

In this case my argument consists of offering evidence that suggested
that there is a class of users for whom initiating backups is not a
trivial task. They are not uncommon and denial of their existence will
not cause them to cease to exist.

your argument assumes all computers are as difficult to use as windows
and will remain that way forever.


You are attempting to change the subject. That's twice now. The
discussion is about backing up Windows 10. Apples have nothing to do
with it.


i haven't changed anything.


Yes, you have.

--
Cheers, Carlos.
  #169  
Old October 18th 18, 12:28 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Carlos E.R.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 278
Default Windows 10 update wipes out files and photos

On 15/10/2018 18.16, nospam wrote:
In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

https://support.apple.com/library/co...m/applecare/im
ages/en
_US/osx/tm_new_drive.png

Thank you for offering an Apple-only solution to the solution of a
problem involving Windows 10.

backups are not a platform specific issue.

The presumed ease of use of Time Machine is.

it's not presumed. it *is* easier.


... and the relevance of this to Windows 10 is ...?


that as good as win10 is, it's still not as easy to use as it could be.


Maybe, but that's what people have, and changing paradigm on their own
is next to impossible. Then you have to warranty that they have someone
close that can demo any thing they need.

For what it is worth, if I were available I would set the machine in
Linux. I have tried it, they handle it as easily as Windows, they don't
notice the change (just click on the Mozilla icon). As long as I
maintain the machine, it is no trouble for them. But I'm not near site.



just because windows lacks something as easy to use as time machine
doesn't mean it does not exist.

If Windows lacks it there in point in you citing it.

that sentence does not make sense as written.


Quite right. I'll try again, If Windows lacks it there is there any
point in you citing it?


yes.


No. It is you diverting course.


In any case, I am quite certain my Apple-only sister would say "What
is Time Machine" and then have to be shown in detail how to use it.

nope. she just needs to connect an external drive and click the 'use as
backup disk' button. it really is that simple.

What makes you think that if she couldn't use a USB memory stick she
could connect an external drive and click the 'use backup' button
(what use back up button?).

this isn't specifically about her, but it really isn't very difficult.
if she can't handle it, someone else in the household can.


This is slightly hilarious. You are now accepting the possibility that
she might not be able to handle a task. At the same time you are
asserting that there *will* be someone else in the house to handle it.


you're assuming again.


Assuming correctly, as a matter of fact.


how did she manage to plug the computer into mains power and set it up?
that is a *lot* more steps than for time machine.


How did she manage to do these things as well as setting up and
connecting to her network connection? I have no idea but can only
presume that someone did it for her.


then that someone can connect a hard drive and click a button for her.


Maybe it took months to get someone to do it for them.
Maybe there was somebody living at the house at that time.
Maybe the shop did that initial setup.


how does she manage to use the computer if she's so inept?
heck, driving a car is more complicated.


Not really. They get trained on it, and there are no changes, no surprises.

--
Cheers, Carlos.
  #170  
Old October 18th 18, 12:33 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Carlos E.R.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 278
Default Windows 10 update wipes out files and photos

On 16/10/2018 08.18, nospam wrote:
In article , Tony Cooper
wrote:

What makes you think that if she couldn't use a USB memory stick she
could connect an external drive and click the 'use backup' button
(what use back up button?).

this isn't specifically about her, but it really isn't very difficult.
if she can't handle it, someone else in the household can.

This is slightly hilarious. You are now accepting the possibility that
she might not be able to handle a task. At the same time you are
asserting that there *will* be someone else in the house to handle it.

you're assuming again.

I'm not. I'm making explicit your assumption, that there will be
someone else in the house to handle it.

how did she manage to plug the computer into mains power and set it
up? that is a *lot* more steps than for time machine.


What kind of idiotic question is that? If she's plugged in an iron or
a toaster, she knows what is to be done with a power cord.


there's nothing idiotic about it. if she can plug a cable into the
wall, then she can plug a cable into the back or side of a computer
(depending on model). it's actually easier than a power cord, since
there's no need to crawl under a desk nor is there a risk of electrical
shock.


These people usually have laptops.


If she
needs it "set up", the store where she bought it will do that.


stores don't normally do that, but if one did, they could connect the
hard drive for her.

What do "steps" have to do with anything?


a lot.

once again, you're babbling about things you know nothing about. i know
you like to argue, it's all you do, but you really should have a good
understanding of the topic before spewing.


Actually he is right, and you are not.



How did she manage to do these things as well as setting up and
connecting to her network connection? I have no idea but can only
presume that someone did it for her.

then that someone can connect a hard drive and click a button for her.

This is past the point of ridiculousness.

then what do you suggest eric's sister do, given that she is incapable
of such tasks, according to eric?


The ridiculousness is that you refer to "automatic" back-ups being so
simple and completely ignore that the back-up procedure is only
automatic *after* it is set up for automatic back-ups. There is
nothing automatic about setting it up, and there are choices to be
made that the sister is not capable of understanding. You think she
knows if she wants an incremental or differential back-up?


once again, you're babbling about things you know absolutely nothing
about.

the setup is nothing more than clicking a single button. that is *it*:
https://support.apple.com/library/co...are/images/en_
US/osx/tm_new_drive.png


Windows. Don't divert.


--
Cheers, Carlos.
 




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