Olympus and others. Greater mega pixel capacity expected soon? Skinnyon E-3

nospam wrote:
wrote:
Wolfgang Weisselberg wrote:

The Nikons start at ISO 200, IIRC. I doubt my IQ matches 200.

Careful! The D200 ISO starts at 100.

Yes, it's dumbed down, obviously!

That's forty points lower than I want my IQ to be.

Well, what you want your IQ to be and what it is might just
diverge a little bit.

some nikon cameras start at iso 50...

They don't belong to rec.photo.digital.SLR-SYSTEMS, do they?
Now, someone who mixes up their newsgroups is well equipped
to rate IQs, right?

-Wolfgang

Yoshi wrote:
"Alienjones" wrote in message
...
Olympus are well and truly out of contention as a supplier of
professional level cameras. I never thought I say that!


Absolute bull****.


Nah - for once D-Mac is right. Olympus are behind the game,
and have locked themselves into a system that can never be
competitive against Canon & Nikon. Yes they make a good
camera, yes they make some fantastic lenses, yes some of
their gear is good enough for use by professionals, yes some
professionals do use their gear, but unless they do
something sensational they will never be a serious
professional contender, or for that matter a serious
contender for the advanced enthusiast dollar.

They are up against it for a few reasons:
1 - No matter how sensors improve, Olympus will always be 1
step behind APS and 2 steps behind 24x36. If noise levels
are to be equal, Olympus will always be 1/2 resolution of
APS and 1/4 resolution of 24x36. Alternatively if resolution
stays the same, Olympus' noise levels will be 1 stop behind
APS and 2 stops behind 24x36. Or some combination of the 2.

2 - reduced ability to control DOF. 4/3 requires 1 more stop
of Aperture compared to APS and 2 more stops compared to
24x36 of aperture to deliver the same level of selective blur.

3 - Because 4/3 is always behind the larger formats for
resolution and/or noise, there is always speculation about
it's longevity. Professionals don't want to buy into a
dead-end system.

4 - Most professionals are already committed to either Canon
or Nikon, and purchase additional lenses/bodies to suit
their existing gear. Very few already have Olympus, so very
few will be prepared to purchase a complete new system.

On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 22:12:38 +1000, Doug Jewell
wrote:

Yoshi wrote:
"Alienjones" wrote in message
...
Olympus are well and truly out of contention as a supplier of
professional level cameras. I never thought I say that!


Absolute bull****.


Nah - for once D-Mac is right. Olympus are behind the game,
and have locked themselves into a system that can never be
competitive against Canon & Nikon. Yes they make a good
camera, yes they make some fantastic lenses, yes some of
their gear is good enough for use by professionals, yes some
professionals do use their gear, but unless they do
something sensational they will never be a serious
professional contender, or for that matter a serious
contender for the advanced enthusiast dollar.

Who cares?

They are up against it for a few reasons:
1 - No matter how sensors improve, Olympus will always be 1
step behind APS and 2 steps behind 24x36. If noise levels
are to be equal, Olympus will always be 1/2 resolution of
APS and 1/4 resolution of 24x36. Alternatively if resolution
stays the same, Olympus' noise levels will be 1 stop behind
APS and 2 stops behind 24x36. Or some combination of the 2.

2 - reduced ability to control DOF. 4/3 requires 1 more stop
of Aperture compared to APS and 2 more stops compared to
24x36 of aperture to deliver the same level of selective blur.

3 - Because 4/3 is always behind the larger formats for
resolution and/or noise, there is always speculation about
it's longevity. Professionals don't want to buy into a
dead-end system.

Bit plenty more do because it is not dead end, and because it serves
their needs.

4 - Most professionals are already committed to either Canon
or Nikon, and purchase additional lenses/bodies to suit
their existing gear. Very few already have Olympus, so very
few will be prepared to purchase a complete new system.

Yep that is true, and Oly know it, but there is still enough interest
in the cameras because the target audience is different.

Horses for courses.

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Alienjones wrote:

Olympus are in a partnership with Panasonic. That partnership has
Panasonic making P&S cameras for Olympus and supplying sensors for
Olympus DSLRs.
Not quite - the Oly P&S are mostly made by Sanyo, and other
assorted Chinese no-brand manufacturers. As are most Nikon,
Pentax & Kodak (& probably more - I suspect Sony are also in
this category).
Panasonic are one of the few who do manufacturer their own
P&S cameras (along with Canon, Fujifilm, Samsung and
possibly Sony). Panasonic have a co-branding relationship
with Leica.
Panasonic were one of the companies who committed to 4/3,
and as part of that commitment, they produce 4/3 sensors
which are used by Olympus. Panasonic build their DSLRs on an
Olympus chassis, although not much else of the camera is
Olympus. The camera is then rebadged as a Leica.


~From my experience with both brands of cameras, Olympus are not at any
time soon going to have ground breaking sensor technology. For a long
time I had considerable faith that Panasonic's experience with Pro Video
cameras would result in exceptional still camera sensors.

Too much time has passed without the substantial improvement Nikon came
out with to think the Olympasonics will never be at the level they need
to to be at to regain the reputation Olympus had with their OM1 cameras.

If I were head of the board at Olympus I'd either dump DSLRs from the
product range or embark on a horrifically expensive R&D program to
produce a 20MP sensor to rival anything Canon or Nikon will have
produced by the time it is developed.
For them to really succeed they need to ditch 4/3 and move
into a larger format sensor. Olympus's fate as a serious
DSLR maker was sealed when they ditched their film SLRs. If
they built their DSLRs with OM compatibility they _may_ have
stood a chance.

Such events are as likely to happen as my chance of being appointed to
the board of directors! Bye bye Panasonic. The last of the handful of
FZ50sI had for Santa shoots is gone. Replaced with Nikon D60s.

My 20 year loyalty to Olympus ended with the sale of my E2 and the
introduction of Canon 10D. I never had any loyalty to Canon. Too many
out-of-the-box faults, too few fixes. My loyalty to Nikon is now
complete and at unthinkable cost (for me) of a holiday house and new
car. It wasn't so much the D3 bodies that cost so much but the lenses x6
I had to buy and the telephoto lenses. My old Canon gear didn't bring
anything like what I expected.

Second month and 5th wedding as 100% Nikon and the results are very
clearly that although I sold many personal assets and didn't upgrade my
car to change from a mixed bag of brands to one, my photographs are now
easier to obtain and my dud list reduced to well below expectations.

Compared to Olympus?

What a waste of a perfectly good opportunity Olympus had. Some of the
best lenses in the world won't overcome some of the worst cameras
they've ever made. No worse example of their mistakes than when the D300
(twin lens kit) started selling in department stores at less than 50% of
it's six months earlier RRP. They might sell a few E3s to die hard
devotees but really,
I think you mean E300 not D300. The E300's were cleared to
shift them because Olympus loaded stores up with stock on
promises that never materialised, and then promptly
discontinued them and announced new models. If you think you
lost out on a few cameras that lost their value, spare a
thought for the poor retailers! I don't think there'd be a
single retailer that stocked them that didn't lose at least
several thousand dollars on them. I know of one major Aussie
camera retailer that tore up more than $100,000 in just one
of their stores. What amazed me even more is that Olympus
didn't burn their bridges with the E300 fiasco - I'm
surprised that any stores continue to stock Olympus after that.

Olympus are well and truly out of contention as a supplier of
professional level cameras. I never thought I say that!
but it is true - in Australia anyway.