Pany G1

How much better and where is the Canon XSi over the Panasonic G1 micro 4/3
system?

measekite wrote:
How much better and where is the Canon XSi over the Panasonic G1
micro 4/3 system?

They are simply "different". For example, what lenses are you proposing
to use with the G1? The XSi is a single fixed package. The G1 you can
expand with different lenses both now and perhaps even more lens choice in
the future. Is high ISO ( and therefore sensor size) important to you?

I would expect that if you were to define a particular photogrpahic
situation, you could produce a list of pros and cons for each camera type.
/You/ would then need to weigh the total balance - no-one else can do that
for you.

Cheers,
David

David J Taylor wrote:
measekite wrote:
How much better and where is the Canon XSi over the Panasonic G1
micro 4/3 system?

They are simply "different". For example, what lenses are you proposing
to use with the G1? The XSi is a single fixed package.

What do you mean by "single fixed package"?
The Canon XSi (AKA: Canon EOS 450D) is a DSLR camera with
interchangeable lenses.
How is that a "fixed package"?

The G1 you can
expand with different lenses both now and perhaps even more lens choice
in the future. Is high ISO ( and therefore sensor size) important to you?

As can be done with the Canon XSi, in fact their are far more EOS lenses
that will fit the EOS 450D than are currently available for Micro
FourThirds.

I would expect that if you were to define a particular photographic
situation, you could produce a list of pros and cons for each camera
type. /You/ would then need to weigh the total balance - no-one else can
do that for you.

Cheers,
David

Or, if you have EOS lenses already then there is little reason to even
consider the Panasonic DMC-G1.
If starting from a "clean slate", then either camera seems like it would
be fine for most situations and then _you_ will have to make a decision
for yourself.

On Tue, 23 Dec 2008 19:51:27 +1100, dj_nme wrote:

David J Taylor wrote:
measekite wrote:
How much better and where is the Canon XSi over the Panasonic G1
micro 4/3 system?

They are simply "different". For example, what lenses are you proposing
to use with the G1? The XSi is a single fixed package.

What do you mean by "single fixed package"?
The Canon XSi (AKA: Canon EOS 450D) is a DSLR camera with
interchangeable lenses.
How is that a "fixed package"?

The G1 you can
expand with different lenses both now and perhaps even more lens choice
in the future. Is high ISO ( and therefore sensor size) important to you?

As can be done with the Canon XSi, in fact their are far more EOS lenses
that will fit the EOS 450D than are currently available for Micro
FourThirds.

I would expect that if you were to define a particular photographic
situation, you could produce a list of pros and cons for each camera
type. /You/ would then need to weigh the total balance - no-one else can
do that for you.

Cheers,
David

Or, if you have EOS lenses already then there is little reason to even
consider the Panasonic DMC-G1.
If starting from a "clean slate", then either camera seems like it would
be fine for most situations and then _you_ will have to make a decision
for yourself.

The greatest drawback to falling into the dSLR trap. After you've started to
invest in glass, which can easily run into many many thou$ands, you are forever
limited by your initial investment and inexperienced earlier choices. Always
trying to justify past purchases and attempting to make them still useful,
instead of moving onto something newer or better.

I'd still be fumbling with all the huge drawbacks of 35mm film if I wanted to go
that route. There comes a time where you just have to let it all go, to become
nothing but memorabilia on a shelf.

There's a wonderful and wise saying about "throwing good money after bad".

When buying a P&S camera I get a state of the art camera along with state of the
art glass with every new purchase. Always being on the forefront. Always
enjoying all the new features, ideas and concepts that might eventually make
their way down the ladder into DSLR cameras a few years from now. Some features
which never will be implemented because they can't work in any camera with a
mechanical focal-plane shutter and slapping mirror.

May you enjoy your expenditures in trying to still live in the last century.

dj_nme wrote:
David J Taylor wrote:
measekite wrote:
How much better and where is the Canon XSi over the Panasonic G1
micro 4/3 system?

They are simply "different". For example, what lenses are you
proposing to use with the G1? The XSi is a single fixed package.

What do you mean by "single fixed package"?
The Canon XSi (AKA: Canon EOS 450D) is a DSLR camera with
interchangeable lenses.
How is that a "fixed package"?

The G1 you can
expand with different lenses both now and perhaps even more lens
choice in the future. Is high ISO ( and therefore sensor size)
important to you?

As can be done with the Canon XSi, in fact their are far more EOS
lenses that will fit the EOS 450D than are currently available for
Micro FourThirds.

I would expect that if you were to define a particular photographic
situation, you could produce a list of pros and cons for each camera
type. /You/ would then need to weigh the total balance - no-one else
can do that for you.

Cheers,
David

Or, if you have EOS lenses already then there is little reason to even
consider the Panasonic DMC-G1.
If starting from a "clean slate", then either camera seems like it
would be fine for most situations and then _you_ will have to make a
decision for yourself.

I confused the poster as having mentioned a Canon SX10 - a fixed lens.
Please ignore my comments. Apologies.

David

dj_nme wrote:
[]
Or, if you have EOS lenses already then there is little reason to even
consider the Panasonic DMC-G1.

Indeed, yes.

If starting from a "clean slate", then either camera seems like it
would be fine for most situations and then _you_ will have to make a
decision for yourself.

Agreed. Today, I would tend towards the system with the greatest number
of lenses which met my own needs. This would mean having in-lens IS.
After that, I would tend towards the larger sensor camera, if it did not
compromise size and weight too much.

Cheers,
David

On Tue, 23 Dec 2008 07:46:32 -0600, Trey Kanter
wrote:

On Tue, 23 Dec 2008 19:51:27 +1100, dj_nme wrote:

David J Taylor wrote:
measekite wrote:
How much better and where is the Canon XSi over the Panasonic G1
micro 4/3 system?

They are simply "different". For example, what lenses are you proposing
to use with the G1? The XSi is a single fixed package.

What do you mean by "single fixed package"?
The Canon XSi (AKA: Canon EOS 450D) is a DSLR camera with
interchangeable lenses.
How is that a "fixed package"?

The G1 you can
expand with different lenses both now and perhaps even more lens choice
in the future. Is high ISO ( and therefore sensor size) important to you?

As can be done with the Canon XSi, in fact their are far more EOS lenses
that will fit the EOS 450D than are currently available for Micro
FourThirds.

I would expect that if you were to define a particular photographic
situation, you could produce a list of pros and cons for each camera
type. /You/ would then need to weigh the total balance - no-one else can
do that for you.

Cheers,
David

Or, if you have EOS lenses already then there is little reason to even
consider the Panasonic DMC-G1.
If starting from a "clean slate", then either camera seems like it would
be fine for most situations and then _you_ will have to make a decision
for yourself.

The greatest drawback to falling into the dSLR trap. After you've started to
invest in glass, which can easily run into many many thou$ands, you are forever
limited by your initial investment and inexperienced earlier choices. Always
trying to justify past purchases and attempting to make them still useful,
instead of moving onto something newer or better.

Complete BS. After you've invested many thou$ands in glass, you are
not limited by your initial investment because you can sell that glass
for many thou$sands.

If you check out ebay, you'll see that DSLR glass loses very little of
it's value. You can buy a new lens and when you want to upgrade it,
sell the one you bought even years later for a very high percentage,
maybe like 80% or even higher, of what you bought it for. And if you
bought your lens used on ebay, you can sell it for the same or even
more than you bought it for. That's right... buy it, use it for a
while and if you don't like it, sell it and you had it for free. Hell,
with the way most investments have lost value recently and with the
fed giving out money for free, a good DSLR lens is one of the best
investments you can make.

Ever look at what you can sell a couple of year old P&S for?

I'd still be fumbling with all the huge drawbacks of 35mm film if I wanted to go
that route. There comes a time where you just have to let it all go, to become
nothing but memorabilia on a shelf.

There's a wonderful and wise saying about "throwing good money after bad".

When buying a P&S camera I get a state of the art camera along with state of the
art glass with every new purchase. Always being on the forefront. Always

And you're complaining about the $ invested in DSLR glass? When you
buy a new, state of the art P&S, you just wasted a ton of $. Try and
sell it a few years later when you want to upgrade and see what you
can get for it. The guy that bought that state of the art Nikon
70-200 VR lens a few years ago can sell it today for almost what he
bought it for. And he got a good few years of service out of it. You
might as well throw away your state of the art P&S camera a few years
later for what it's worth.

You're barking up the wrong tree if you want to use investment value
as a reason to choose a P&S over a DSLR.

Steve

On Tue, 23 Dec 2008 14:42:21 GMT, TheRealSteve wrote:


On Tue, 23 Dec 2008 07:46:32 -0600, Trey Kanter
wrote:

On Tue, 23 Dec 2008 19:51:27 +1100, dj_nme wrote:

David J Taylor wrote:
measekite wrote:
How much better and where is the Canon XSi over the Panasonic G1
micro 4/3 system?

They are simply "different". For example, what lenses are you proposing
to use with the G1? The XSi is a single fixed package.

What do you mean by "single fixed package"?
The Canon XSi (AKA: Canon EOS 450D) is a DSLR camera with
interchangeable lenses.
How is that a "fixed package"?

The G1 you can
expand with different lenses both now and perhaps even more lens choice
in the future. Is high ISO ( and therefore sensor size) important to you?

As can be done with the Canon XSi, in fact their are far more EOS lenses
that will fit the EOS 450D than are currently available for Micro
FourThirds.

I would expect that if you were to define a particular photographic
situation, you could produce a list of pros and cons for each camera
type. /You/ would then need to weigh the total balance - no-one else can
do that for you.

Cheers,
David

Or, if you have EOS lenses already then there is little reason to even
consider the Panasonic DMC-G1.
If starting from a "clean slate", then either camera seems like it would
be fine for most situations and then _you_ will have to make a decision
for yourself.

The greatest drawback to falling into the dSLR trap. After you've started to
invest in glass, which can easily run into many many thou$ands, you are forever
limited by your initial investment and inexperienced earlier choices. Always
trying to justify past purchases and attempting to make them still useful,
instead of moving onto something newer or better.

Complete BS. After you've invested many thou$ands in glass, you are
not limited by your initial investment because you can sell that glass
for many thou$sands.

And how many hours and days of your time will be used up in that selling,
packing, shipping process? Anything you had hoped to gain you easily lost in
time spent trying to sell it just to break-even. Unless your time means nothing
to you. My time is very valuable to me. The average person can't afford to hire
me. I'm not going to invest $3000 in a piece of camera gear and then spend $5000
of my time just trying to recoup the original $3000 lost. Even if I sold it for
a full $3000 I'd still be out the $5000 of my time. Loss / loss, all around.


If you check out ebay, you'll see that DSLR glass loses very little of
it's value. You can buy a new lens and when you want to upgrade it,
sell the one you bought even years later for a very high percentage,
maybe like 80% or even higher, of what you bought it for. And if you
bought your lens used on ebay, you can sell it for the same or even
more than you bought it for.

Except that many of those older lenses won't work with the newer cameras, so now
you are stuck with older cameras that only work with old lenses or have to buy
new lenses in the same line that work with the newer cameras just because 1 or 2
of them might still be compatible. Still stranded in the same line of cameras
and lenses. Similar marketing schemes would be called a scam-artist's act. With
a P&S you're only investing about $300 every other year. With a DSLR you are
investing and wasting over $3000 every other year.

You can buy 10 to 20 excellent P&S cameras for what it costs for just one DSLR
lens that's worth having, not even counting a new body for another $2,000 to
$3,000. Which won't even be compatible with most of your older glass.


That's right... buy it, use it for a
while and if you don't like it, sell it and you had it for free. Hell,
with the way most investments have lost value recently and with the
fed giving out money for free, a good DSLR lens is one of the best
investments you can make.

Not if you can't sell it. I'm not an arm-chair-photographer ebay bidder. I have
better things to do with my time and money. I can make more in the amount of
time that it would take to list one item on ebay (in only trying to break-even)
by going out and shooting photos for 10 minutes.


Ever look at what you can sell a couple of year old P&S for?

Doesn't matter. For their price I give my old ones away to friends and their
kids who would like a better camera than what they might already have. I got all
that I needed out of the camera, now someone else can benefit from it. The small
investment that keeps on giving.



I'd still be fumbling with all the huge drawbacks of 35mm film if I wanted to go
that route. There comes a time where you just have to let it all go, to become
nothing but memorabilia on a shelf.

There's a wonderful and wise saying about "throwing good money after bad".

When buying a P&S camera I get a state of the art camera along with state of the
art glass with every new purchase. Always being on the forefront. Always

And you're complaining about the $ invested in DSLR glass? When you
buy a new, state of the art P&S, you just wasted a ton of $.

$300 is not a ton. $3000+ for any bit of camera gear starts to become
questionable. Add in the lenses that won't be useful on DSLRs two years from now
and you're sitting on a lot of expensive "useless" in two year's time. Too
expensive to just give it away, too much of a waste of time to try to sell it
again just to break even.

Headline: "Amateur photographer hoping their DSLR would give them talent now
turns into just another ebay listing."

You sound like you're speaking from that very experience.


Try and
sell it a few years later when you want to upgrade and see what you
can get for it. The guy that bought that state of the art Nikon
70-200 VR lens a few years ago can sell it today for almost what he
bought it for. And he got a good few years of service out of it. You
might as well throw away your state of the art P&S camera a few years
later for what it's worth.

I don't throw them away. I give away the ones that I don't use anymore.


You're barking up the wrong tree if you want to use investment value
as a reason to choose a P&S over a DSLR.

Steve

Nothing was said about "investment value". That's a concept that's important
for people who care more about going to ebay flea-markets with their cameras and
lenses than using them for photography. What was mentioned was investing in a
line of gear from which you can't easily change your choices without a lot of
loss, either in time or money, or more often both.

I just figured out the reason for your whole reply. If you see people not
wanting your used DSLR crap, and others start to follow suit, then you might
lose out on your huge investment. Nobody will care about bidding on your old
gear. The one and only reason for your post just came into sharp focus. It has
nothing to do with photography at all. You're just afraid that your ancient
camera gear is going to lose financial value.

Oops, too late. Many of us have already moved on, to something better.

On Tue, 23 Dec 2008 07:46:32 -0600, Trey Kanter
wrote in
:

The greatest drawback to falling into the dSLR trap. After you've started to
invest in glass, which can easily run into many many thou$ands, you are forever
limited by your initial investment and inexperienced earlier choices. Always
trying to justify past purchases and attempting to make them still useful,
instead of moving onto something newer or better.

Very good point. I've got a big investment in superb Canon FD glass
that's mostly gathering dust in my closet (along with the great T-90
body) because Canon orphaned it after years of telling trusting
customers how superior it was, without so much as an apology, not even
one digital body was made for it, or even a trade-in program. I wish I
had gone Nikon back in the beginning, but you can never know the future.
It's a mistake I'm doing my best to avoid making again.

When buying a P&S camera I get a state of the art camera along with state of the
art glass with every new purchase. Always being on the forefront. Always
enjoying all the new features, ideas and concepts that might eventually make
their way down the ladder into DSLR cameras a few years from now. Some features
which never will be implemented because they can't work in any camera with a
mechanical focal-plane shutter and slapping mirror.

Another very good point. The Leica-branded stabilized super-zoom lens
on my Panasonic DMC-FZ8 is awesome -- nothing in 35 mm comes close even
at many times the cost. I paid only about $200 for the camera and lens,
and the cost for my next state-of-the-art upgrade will be similarly
modest.

I may still get a dSLR one of these days, probably Nikon, and probably
used, but will probably still take most of my pictures with the FZ8 and
its successors.

--
Best regards,
John
Panasonic DMC-FZ8, DMC-FZ20, and several others

On Tue, 23 Dec 2008 08:22:44 +0000, David J Taylor wrote:

measekite wrote:
How much better and where is the Canon XSi over the Panasonic G1
micro 4/3 system?

They are simply "different". For example, what lenses are you proposing
to use with the G1? The XSi is a single fixed package. The G1 you can
expand with different lenses both now and perhaps even more lens choice in
the future. Is high ISO ( and therefore sensor size) important to you?


I think you are mistaken. The Canon Digital Rebel XSi (aka 450D) is a
DSLR with an APC sized sensor.

I am not speaking about size or weight or features or the diversity of
lenses. I wish to know mainly about image quality when cropped somewhat
and printed at UP TO 16x20.


I would expect that if you were to define a particular photogrpahic
situation, you could produce a list of pros and cons for each camera
type. /You/ would then need to weigh the total balance - no-one else can
do that for you.

Cheers,
David