Tray developing 4x5 - questions

The other night I tried this for the first time. I ran four negatives,
using a 5x7 tray for the developer and 8x10 for fix, stop, and
washing. The negatives came out beautifully with no emulsion
damage whatsoever BUT

1) I had a devil of a time manipulating the sheets in the developer
tray. I have medium-sized hands, but it just seemed very awkward.
I had the tray oriented vertically in front of me - maybe horizontal
might be better?

2) All four negatives had varying degrees of scratching on the base
side! I actually think this might have occurred during the wash as
this was the time the negs were free to move around. How can I
stop this from happening?

Thanks!

Steve

Stephan Goldstein wrote:
The other night I tried this for the first time. I ran four negatives,
using a 5x7 tray for the developer and 8x10 for fix, stop, and
washing. The negatives came out beautifully with no emulsion
damage whatsoever BUT

1) I had a devil of a time manipulating the sheets in the developer
tray. I have medium-sized hands, but it just seemed very awkward.
I had the tray oriented vertically in front of me - maybe horizontal
might be better?

2) All four negatives had varying degrees of scratching on the base
side! I actually think this might have occurred during the wash as
this was the time the negs were free to move around. How can I
stop this from happening?

Thanks!

Steve

#1 Use an 8X10 tray for the developer too. Much easier to
manipulate the sheets.

# 2 Maybe it did happen in the wash tray, though it doesn't happen
that way for me. Perhaps your water volume was too high, making the
negs move too much. Try that first. If you still have scratches, look
to your shuffling method in the other trays. My method is to lift the
top sheet completely off the one underneath it with my right hand (I'm
right-handed)and then while lifting the front end (the end away from me)
of the whole pack with my left fingertips, slide the top one under the
rest, while lowering the pack down on top of it. Do an up and down
dunking motion two or three times without lifting out of the solution,
then repeat with the next top sheet.

Good luck.
Larry

"Stephan Goldstein" wrote in message
...
The other night I tried this for the first time. I ran four negatives,
using a 5x7 tray for the developer and 8x10 for fix, stop, and
washing. The negatives came out beautifully with no emulsion
damage whatsoever BUT

1) I had a devil of a time manipulating the sheets in the developer
tray. I have medium-sized hands, but it just seemed very awkward.
I had the tray oriented vertically in front of me - maybe horizontal
might be better?

2) All four negatives had varying degrees of scratching on the base
side! I actually think this might have occurred during the wash as
this was the time the negs were free to move around. How can I
stop this from happening?

Thanks!

Steve

Steve: use a larger tray. I suggest an 8x10. To minimize scratches, use a
lot of developer and move the sheet out from beneath the others before
lifting. Don't us tongs - use gloves or if not sensitive, fingers being
especially careful getting hold of the sheet.

Truly, dr bob.

"Stephan Goldstein" wrote in message
...
The other night I tried this for the first time. I ran four negatives,
using a 5x7 tray for the developer and 8x10 for fix, stop, and
washing. The negatives came out beautifully with no emulsion
damage whatsoever BUT

1) I had a devil of a time manipulating the sheets in the developer
tray. I have medium-sized hands, but it just seemed very awkward.
I had the tray oriented vertically in front of me - maybe horizontal
might be better?

2) All four negatives had varying degrees of scratching on the base
side! I actually think this might have occurred during the wash as
this was the time the negs were free to move around. How can I
stop this from happening?

Thanks!

Steve

Steve: use a larger tray. I suggest an 8x10. To minimize scratches, use a
lot of developer and move the sheet out from beneath the others before
lifting. Don't us tongs - use gloves or if not sensitive, fingers being
especially careful getting hold of the sheet.

Truly, dr bob.

(Stephan Goldstein) wrote in message ...
The other night I tried this for the first time. I ran four negatives,
using a 5x7 tray for the developer and 8x10 for fix, stop, and
washing. The negatives came out beautifully with no emulsion
damage whatsoever BUT

1) I had a devil of a time manipulating the sheets in the developer
tray. I have medium-sized hands, but it just seemed very awkward.
I had the tray oriented vertically in front of me - maybe horizontal
might be better?

2) All four negatives had varying degrees of scratching on the base
side! I actually think this might have occurred during the wash as
this was the time the negs were free to move around. How can I
stop this from happening?


USE HANGERS!



Thanks!

Steve

(Stephan Goldstein) wrote in message ...
The other night I tried this for the first time. I ran four negatives,
using a 5x7 tray for the developer and 8x10 for fix, stop, and
washing. The negatives came out beautifully with no emulsion
damage whatsoever BUT

1) I had a devil of a time manipulating the sheets in the developer
tray. I have medium-sized hands, but it just seemed very awkward.
I had the tray oriented vertically in front of me - maybe horizontal
might be better?

2) All four negatives had varying degrees of scratching on the base
side! I actually think this might have occurred during the wash as
this was the time the negs were free to move around. How can I
stop this from happening?


USE HANGERS!



Thanks!

Steve

"Stephan Goldstein" wrote in message
...
The other night I tried this for the first time. I ran four negatives,
using a 5x7 tray for the developer and 8x10 for fix, stop, and
washing. The negatives came out beautifully with no emulsion
damage whatsoever BUT

1) I had a devil of a time manipulating the sheets in the developer
tray. I have medium-sized hands, but it just seemed very awkward.
I had the tray oriented vertically in front of me - maybe horizontal
might be better?

2) All four negatives had varying degrees of scratching on the base
side! I actually think this might have occurred during the wash as
this was the time the negs were free to move around. How can I
stop this from happening?

Thanks!

Steve

I always use a 5x7 tray for 4x5 film, and have no problems regarding
scratching. Use gloves and be sure to carefully lift the bottom sheet and
CAREFULLY place it back down on the top of the pile. More than likely, the
scratches were incurred while placing the film back on top. Be sure to place
the emulsion side down.

Do you do a pre-soak?

It took me a couple tries to get the hang of it, but it's rather easy after
you get it down. I personally wouldn't recommend a bigger tray. That--to
me--seems like you'd be inviting more danger, because of movement. the 4x5s
fit nice and snug in a 5x7 tray, and it gives you just enough room to fit
your hand in and grab the film. And my hands are large too.

As a side note: I now use an old Unicolor tube and roller combo for my 4x5
development. It can hold four sheets at a time, and is very economical as
far as chemistry. You can find these for dirt cheap at used camera stores,
or via ebay.

Good luck and keep at it. Tray development is very easy when the stigma is
removed.

"Stephan Goldstein" wrote in message
...
The other night I tried this for the first time. I ran four negatives,
using a 5x7 tray for the developer and 8x10 for fix, stop, and
washing. The negatives came out beautifully with no emulsion
damage whatsoever BUT

1) I had a devil of a time manipulating the sheets in the developer
tray. I have medium-sized hands, but it just seemed very awkward.
I had the tray oriented vertically in front of me - maybe horizontal
might be better?

2) All four negatives had varying degrees of scratching on the base
side! I actually think this might have occurred during the wash as
this was the time the negs were free to move around. How can I
stop this from happening?

Thanks!

Steve

I always use a 5x7 tray for 4x5 film, and have no problems regarding
scratching. Use gloves and be sure to carefully lift the bottom sheet and
CAREFULLY place it back down on the top of the pile. More than likely, the
scratches were incurred while placing the film back on top. Be sure to place
the emulsion side down.

Do you do a pre-soak?

It took me a couple tries to get the hang of it, but it's rather easy after
you get it down. I personally wouldn't recommend a bigger tray. That--to
me--seems like you'd be inviting more danger, because of movement. the 4x5s
fit nice and snug in a 5x7 tray, and it gives you just enough room to fit
your hand in and grab the film. And my hands are large too.

As a side note: I now use an old Unicolor tube and roller combo for my 4x5
development. It can hold four sheets at a time, and is very economical as
far as chemistry. You can find these for dirt cheap at used camera stores,
or via ebay.

Good luck and keep at it. Tray development is very easy when the stigma is
removed.

"Stephan Goldstein" wrote in message
...
The other night I tried this for the first time. I ran
four negatives,
using a 5x7 tray for the developer and 8x10 for fix, stop,
and
washing. The negatives came out beautifully with no
emulsion
damage whatsoever BUT

1) I had a devil of a time manipulating the sheets in the
developer
tray. I have medium-sized hands, but it just seemed very
awkward.
I had the tray oriented vertically in front of me - maybe
horizontal
might be better?

2) All four negatives had varying degrees of scratching on
the base
side! I actually think this might have occurred during
the wash as
this was the time the negs were free to move around. How
can I
stop this from happening?

Thanks!

Steve

I agree with the others. An 8x10 tray is the minimum for
any size film. Also, it should be well filled with solution.
It helps to use a tray with bumps of grooves on the bottom
to help you get a grip on the film.


--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA

"Stephan Goldstein" wrote in message
...
The other night I tried this for the first time. I ran
four negatives,
using a 5x7 tray for the developer and 8x10 for fix, stop,
and
washing. The negatives came out beautifully with no
emulsion
damage whatsoever BUT

1) I had a devil of a time manipulating the sheets in the
developer
tray. I have medium-sized hands, but it just seemed very
awkward.
I had the tray oriented vertically in front of me - maybe
horizontal
might be better?

2) All four negatives had varying degrees of scratching on
the base
side! I actually think this might have occurred during
the wash as
this was the time the negs were free to move around. How
can I
stop this from happening?

Thanks!

Steve

I agree with the others. An 8x10 tray is the minimum for
any size film. Also, it should be well filled with solution.
It helps to use a tray with bumps of grooves on the bottom
to help you get a grip on the film.


--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA