A truly HORRIFIC tsunami picture

Roland Karlsson writes:

Take a flower. It is hit by photons. Otherwise it would not grow.
So - the flower is a photon detector.

But the flower doesn't actually exist in any definite form until it has
been observed. And whatever is observing it doesn't exist in any
definite form, either, until it has been observed. And so on.

This leads inevitably to an infinite chain of observers, and a paradox
that cannot be resolved in physical reality. However, it _is_ resolved
in metaphysical reality--by consciousness. Consciousness is a
metaphysical phenomenon, outside physical reality, and as such it can
observe without itself being subject to the observation requirement.
Thus, the chain of observers ends when the last observer is
consciousness. And this in turn means that nothing exists until
consciousness is focused upon it ... and so consciousness effectively
creates reality.

--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.

Roland Karlsson writes:

Take a flower. It is hit by photons. Otherwise it would not grow.
So - the flower is a photon detector.

But the flower doesn't actually exist in any definite form until it has
been observed. And whatever is observing it doesn't exist in any
definite form, either, until it has been observed. And so on.

This leads inevitably to an infinite chain of observers, and a paradox
that cannot be resolved in physical reality. However, it _is_ resolved
in metaphysical reality--by consciousness. Consciousness is a
metaphysical phenomenon, outside physical reality, and as such it can
observe without itself being subject to the observation requirement.
Thus, the chain of observers ends when the last observer is
consciousness. And this in turn means that nothing exists until
consciousness is focused upon it ... and so consciousness effectively
creates reality.

--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.

Roland Karlsson writes:

Both religeous and non religeous has the same
problem with free will.

OK ... so?

If you don't restrict your scenario temporally, there is no longer a
paradox.

Can God create a rock so large that he cannot move it? The answer is
_both_ yes and no. Understanding the answer requires that one be
independent of time.

--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

There's no such thing as objective reality. Even relativity proves
that.

Relativity (both special and general) is unambiguous. There
is no universal time, thats true. But you can order all events
in space-time. So - Relativity does not rule out any
objective reality (as long as you understand that you cannot
agree upon any universal time). And - as a matter of fact -
that was why Einstein did not like Quantum Theory. Because
in Quantum Theory you start to get problems with reality.


/Roland

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

There's no such thing as objective reality. Even relativity proves
that.

Relativity (both special and general) is unambiguous. There
is no universal time, thats true. But you can order all events
in space-time. So - Relativity does not rule out any
objective reality (as long as you understand that you cannot
agree upon any universal time). And - as a matter of fact -
that was why Einstein did not like Quantum Theory. Because
in Quantum Theory you start to get problems with reality.


/Roland

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

But the flower doesn't actually exist in any definite form until it has
been observed. And whatever is observing it doesn't exist in any
definite form, either, until it has been observed. And so on.

This leads inevitably to an infinite chain of observers, and a paradox
that cannot be resolved in physical reality. However, it _is_ resolved
in metaphysical reality--by consciousness. Consciousness is a
metaphysical phenomenon, outside physical reality, and as such it can
observe without itself being subject to the observation requirement.
Thus, the chain of observers ends when the last observer is
consciousness. And this in turn means that nothing exists until
consciousness is focused upon it ... and so consciousness effectively
creates reality.

That was more or less what I wrote and you snipped away.
I also dismissed it as unlikely and unneccessary.


/Roland

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Can God create a rock so large that he cannot move it? The answer is
_both_ yes and no. Understanding the answer requires that one be
independent of time.



Play with words.

The by far more reasonable answer is that God has limits.
He might be allmighty within those limits, and then he still
is allmighty. For no one can make what is impossible,
not even God. He can do everything that is possible.


/Roland

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Can God create a rock so large that he cannot move it? The answer is
_both_ yes and no. Understanding the answer requires that one be
independent of time.



Play with words.

The by far more reasonable answer is that God has limits.
He might be allmighty within those limits, and then he still
is allmighty. For no one can make what is impossible,
not even God. He can do everything that is possible.


/Roland

TCS wrote in
:

Nor do I get square circles. Being surpreme doesn't mean it can be
logically contradictory.

Maybe God can do logical contradictory things - maybe not.
I don't really know. I don't even know if there is a God
Maybe God can redefine logic. Maybe he have another logic.
Maybe the logic we use is just a part of the creation we live in.

But ... he sure don't have to be able to do logical contradictory
things to be allmighty. If he can do everything that is possible,
he is allmighty by definition.

As a matter of fact - he might not even be allmighty to be
called allmighty in the Bible. It might be figurative.



/Roland

TCS wrote in
:

Nor do I get square circles. Being surpreme doesn't mean it can be
logically contradictory.

Maybe God can do logical contradictory things - maybe not.
I don't really know. I don't even know if there is a God
Maybe God can redefine logic. Maybe he have another logic.
Maybe the logic we use is just a part of the creation we live in.

But ... he sure don't have to be able to do logical contradictory
things to be allmighty. If he can do everything that is possible,
he is allmighty by definition.

As a matter of fact - he might not even be allmighty to be
called allmighty in the Bible. It might be figurative.



/Roland