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Lighting of engraving on cylinder?



 
 
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  #1  
Old April 16th 04, 05:47 PM
William J. Slater
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Default Lighting of engraving on cylinder?

This is a thread that was started earlier. I said I would share my
results when I got them. Here is what I've got so far. I definitely
need a better background as it's reflecting the light way too much.
It's a dark towel but the fibers are really messing it up. The
engraving is somewhat visable but kind of washed out and the metal
looks way more rusty than in real life. Anyway, here is a url to view
the picture.

http://img48.photobucket.com/albums/...ture_00000.jpg

Here is a digital of the whole cane, not real good either....

http://img48.photobucket.com/albums/.../Mayo_full.jpg

Please feel free to offer and suggestions, comments, etc. I could use
any and all help, especially on what to use for a background material.
  #2  
Old April 16th 04, 06:14 PM
RSD99
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Default Lighting of engraving on cylinder?

"...
I definitely
need a better background as it's reflecting the light way too much.
It's a dark towel but the fibers are really messing it up.
...."

That's because the fabric includes some "female elements." You know ... those things
(compounds) with names like "Ploy" and "Ester" ... [S-CNR]. Synthetic cloth such as wool's
or velvets will "sparkle" ...

You should try the following:

(1) For a background, use a high-quality NATURAL (wool or cotton) felt or velvet of
whatever color you like. Synthetic wool's or velvets will "sparkle" ... and give you poor
results (as you have implied).

(2) For lighting, use a tent lighting setup. This is commonly used for reflective items
such as jewelry, silverware, and so forth. Describing this would be a bit much for a
USENET posting, but there are several web pages that can give you additional information.

Ganoskin has a series on how to photograph Jewelry that is fairly good ... see
http://www.ganoksin.com/borisat/dire...ry/subject/9/1
Go through the whole series ... you'll get a better idea of how a "pro" would approach the
subject.

Adorama has a fairly nice article on this
http://www.adorama.com/catalog.tpl?op=article_080403

CreativePro has an article
http://www.creativepro.com/story/feature/19002.html

PhotoNet has several offerings, including
http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-...?msg_id=000RqB
http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-...?msg_id=0000K0

Using some of these simple techniques will probably dramatically improve your results.








"William J. Slater" wrote in message
m...
This is a thread that was started earlier. I said I would share my
results when I got them. Here is what I've got so far. I definitely
need a better background as it's reflecting the light way too much.
It's a dark towel but the fibers are really messing it up. The
engraving is somewhat visable but kind of washed out and the metal
looks way more rusty than in real life. Anyway, here is a url to view
the picture.

http://img48.photobucket.com/albums/...ture_00000.jpg

Here is a digital of the whole cane, not real good either....

http://img48.photobucket.com/albums/.../Mayo_full.jpg

Please feel free to offer and suggestions, comments, etc. I could use
any and all help, especially on what to use for a background material.



  #3  
Old April 16th 04, 06:16 PM
RSD99
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Default Lighting of engraving on cylinder?

Oh ... and DON'T lay the subject matter directly on the background. It should be a couple
of feet in *front* of it.







  #4  
Old April 16th 04, 08:08 PM
Dennis Bradley
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Default Lighting of engraving on cylinder?


"RSD99" wrote in message
...
Oh ... and DON'T lay the subject matter directly on the background. It

should be a couple
of feet in *front* of it.

Good suggestion!

I would also try more oblique lighting to bring out the detail in the
etching.

Not sure if this would help, but I would consider wetting the metal surface
or giving it a very light coating of fine oil to see if it brought out the
detail in the etching. Of course, if the article is a valuable antique,
then this might not be the thing to do.


Dennis


  #5  
Old April 17th 04, 01:01 AM
William J. Slater
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Default Lighting of engraving on cylinder?

Thanks for the response. Great information on the "background
material". I didn't know anything about that. I will try your
suggestion on material and keeping it farther away from it. If I try
to fashion a light tent should I also continue to use "glancing"
lights down the length of the cane to pick up the engraving? It did
seem to help some in making it stand out. How about a ring flash?
Would that help or hurt?

"RSD99" wrote in message ...
Oh ... and DON'T lay the subject matter directly on the background. It should be a couple
of feet in *front* of it.

  #6  
Old April 17th 04, 02:30 AM
RSD99
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Default Lighting of engraving on cylinder?

Regarding the lighting ...

"Either one ... Or the other"









"William J. Slater" wrote in message
m...


  #7  
Old April 17th 04, 03:31 AM
Nicholas O. Lindan
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Default Lighting of engraving on cylinder?

"William J. Slater" wrote
How about a ring flash?


That should make the engraving vanish.

--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics.

  #8  
Old April 17th 04, 03:53 AM
Nicholas O. Lindan
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Default Lighting of engraving on cylinder?

"William J. Slater" wrote

Anyway, here is a url to view the picture.

http://img48.photobucket.com/albums/...ture_00000.jpg


Somehow I think you are using electronic flash? If so, open a window and
throw that flash unit as far away from you as you can (figuratively of
course).

Get a couple of tensor or luxo lamps and some white and black 20x24 (or whatever)
cards. Move things around and look at what happens, try putting snoots and barn
doors on the lamps (cardboard and duct tape work great). Clear shower-curtain
liner makes a good diffuser: shine the lights on the curtain and place the
object on the other side.

A couple of single tube fluorescent might work well as they have the
same, er, symmetry as the cane: place one along the top and one along the
bottom, out of sight of the camera, of course -- shield the light from
the lens. This would give even lighting along the length of the cane, which
should be goal no matter what.I have never tried this, so take the advice
with a large box of salt.

Color correction with flourescents is a can of worms. They do sell
'flourescent' filters, you may want to get one. OTOH, a slight color
cast will most likely not be noticed.

I don't know if soft or hard light will work best - the trick is to light
the barrel and leave the engraving in it's own 'valley of the shadow'. A large
area enclosing soft light is best for shiny objects, however this doesn't
look shiny at all. If it were shiny then surrounding it with light from the side,
and no light from the top, will make the engraving pop-out from the barrel.

And last but not least:

Go to the fabric store and get some background cloth: plush black velvet,
some silky acetate in silver or gold -- any thing but a towel. If you
want a black background suspend the cane in the air and place the background
in the shadow of the lights, as has been mentioned already. You can also
make any background you want with photoshop.

--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics.
psst.. want to buy an f-stop timer? nolindan.com/da/fstop/

  #9  
Old April 17th 04, 04:22 PM
William J. Slater
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Default Lighting of engraving on cylinder?

Nicholas,

Thanks for the response and suggestions. You are correct that I am
using flash. Unfortuantely I do not have access to lots of lighting
equipment nor does my budget office (the wife) allow me to purchase a
lot of stuff.... ;^D

I did just pick up some black velvet cloth and will see what I can
kludge together in lighting to try again. Sorry to be clueless but
what is a Snoot and Barn Door? Seems like it's time for a trip to the
office supply and hardware store!

As far as the floresent lights, do you mean that I should do this
inside a light tent or try it first without the tent and just the
black velvet background (keeping it some distance away from it)?

I am getting hooked on this photography stuff. It's quite
interesting trying to solve this problem. Thanks again to all of you
for your help!

Bill Slater

Somehow I think you are using electronic flash? If so, open a window and
throw that flash unit as far away from you as you can (figuratively of
course).

Get a couple of tensor or luxo lamps and some white and black 20x24 (or whatever)
cards. Move things around and look at what happens, try putting snoots and barn
doors on the lamps (cardboard and duct tape work great). Clear shower-curtain
liner makes a good diffuser: shine the lights on the curtain and place the
object on the other side.

A couple of single tube fluorescent might work well as they have the
same, er, symmetry as the cane: place one along the top and one along the
bottom, out of sight of the camera, of course -- shield the light from
the lens. This would give even lighting along the length of the cane, which
should be goal no matter what.I have never tried this, so take the advice
with a large box of salt.

Color correction with flourescents is a can of worms. They do sell
'flourescent' filters, you may want to get one. OTOH, a slight color
cast will most likely not be noticed.

I don't know if soft or hard light will work best - the trick is to light
the barrel and leave the engraving in it's own 'valley of the shadow'. A large
area enclosing soft light is best for shiny objects, however this doesn't
look shiny at all. If it were shiny then surrounding it with light from the side,
and no light from the top, will make the engraving pop-out from the barrel.

And last but not least:

Go to the fabric store and get some background cloth: plush black velvet,
some silky acetate in silver or gold -- any thing but a towel. If you
want a black background suspend the cane in the air and place the background
in the shadow of the lights, as has been mentioned already. You can also
make any background you want with photoshop.

  #10  
Old April 17th 04, 05:17 PM
Nicholas O. Lindan
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Posts: n/a
Default Lighting of engraving on cylinder?

"William J. Slater" wrote

Unfortuantely I do not have access to lots of lighting
equipment nor does my budget office (the wife) allow me to purchase a
lot of stuff.... ;^D


You don't have to buy anything. Most houses have enough lights. I'll
bet the stove in the kitchen can be rendered to yield a fluorescent or two.

If your wife insists on guarding the stove, a pair of undercounter fixtures
from K-Mart @ $3.95 ea. will work.

Sorry to be clueless but what is a Snoot and Barn Door?


Just what they sound like: a snoot is a long nose type thingy with a
hole in the end for the light to come out -- roll a paper cone and put
the wide end over the light source; a barn door is a flap that is used
to limit the spread of light or to shield the lens from the light.

Either can be made from a piece of cardboard, duct tape, buffalo clip...
A hole in a sheet of cardboard will serve as a cheapo snoot, which is itself
a cheapo way of making a spot light.

--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics.
psst.. want to buy an f-stop timer? nolindan.com/da/fstop/

 




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