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My X-T3 30fps Burst test



 
 
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  #11  
Old September 30th 18, 07:50 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
EllisMorgan
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Posts: 5
Default My X-T3 30fps Burst test

On 29/09/2018 20:57, Savageduck wrote:
On Sep 29, 2018, Tony Cooper wrote
(in ):

On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 11:22:05 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:

On Sep 29, 2018, Tony Cooper wrote
(in ):

On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 10:28:46 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:


You are going to have to differentiate between stills, and video when it
comes to presentation intent. Then consider whether, or not you are
shooting
a massive burst to capture a moment in time, or to analyze a particular
movement sequence. Both concepts are useful, but the hunt for the frame of
the captured moment to edit in post for presentation has to be chosen from
that burst of 30-100, or more frames. A veritable needle in the haystack,
and
then there is the possibility that you have captured nothing.

It should make it even more impressive that Eadweard Muybridge
(Muggeridge) took photographs in 1887 that showed that a galloping
horse does have all four hoofs off the ground at certain points.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eadweard_Muybridge

Burst photography is often utilized by athletic coaches to evaluate an
athlete's movements...a baseball pitcher's delivery, a quarterback's
passing style, a golfer's swing, or a sprinter's take-off from the
blocks.

Those photos of a punter you posted might be used to point out needs
for improvement.

To all of the above I agree. For some there is going to be a need, and some
will undoubtably find, or already have a purpose for shooting 30-100 frame
bursts at such high frame rates. For me it is a novelty, and most of my
action shooting is going to be in the 4-11fps range, if and when I use the
burst mode at an event.


In your photos of race cars and bicycle racers you can pan. That
doesn't work in football or baseball unless you are intending to
produce an image where one figure is sharp and the rest are not.


Yup!

The issue remains, regardless of event the result will be hundreds, or
thousands of frames to sort through, and rate/cull. The investment in time to
deal with the selection process is going to be brain numbing. Then there is
whatever you might care to do with actual processing.

As I said, for me this is going to be bit of a novelty, and only used
occasionally if I ever have that sort of need arise. Even then I have frame
rates in CL of 3.0fps-5.7fps, Mechanical shutter CH frame rates of 8.0fps &
11fps before going to electronic shutter rates of 20fps, and with a 1.25X
crop, 10fps, 20fps, or 30fps.

I expanded my experiment this morning, and shot a 72 frame burst @ 30fps with
the electronic shutter, but this time with the shutter speed at 1/2000 rather
than the 1/500 of the first batch. Still SOOC JPEGs with no post adjustment
other than the same synced crop applied to each of the selected 10 frames.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/wi6a2bu0lsewmx2/AACNdkrcs7bzsuPdmLcy9SGla?dl=0

Wow, I can see what buy by spending more than 30+ times on your cameras
than I do. Does this mean that a hummer wing cycle takes about 3/2000
seconds, give or take a bit? That is judging by frames numbered 282-285.
the wings seem most closed in 285 and most open in 286.
If you ever point that camera at a bumble be the results would be
interesting.
Thanks for posting your results.
  #12  
Old September 30th 18, 10:53 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Alfred Molon[_4_]
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Posts: 2,591
Default My X-T3 30fps Burst test

In article .com,
Savageduck says...
All of this electronic shutter burst shot capability is due to much more
powerful CPUs. As the CPUs become more powerful the potential to increase
capture rate from 30fps to 60fps is very possible, but I just can?t see
myself at a sporting event, or airshow where I might normally capture
300-1200 individual frames in several hours of shooting, capturing that many
frames in a matter of seconds rather than hours. memory cards are going to
fill quickly, far quicker than shooting video.


Probably for sports events you don't need 60fps. I guess 10 fps is more
than enough for most events.

You'd only need 60fps to capture such split second events as an arrow
hitting a target for instance.

In my case, even if 60fps are available, in most cases I reduce the rate
to less than 10fps. Haven't encountered yet a situation needing 60fps.
--
Alfred Molon

Olympus E-series DSLRs and micro 4/3 forum at
https://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
https://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site
  #13  
Old September 30th 18, 11:45 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
newshound
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Posts: 458
Default My X-T3 30fps Burst test

On 29/09/2018 20:57, Savageduck wrote:
On Sep 29, 2018, Tony Cooper wrote
(in ):



The issue remains, regardless of event the result will be hundreds, or
thousands of frames to sort through, and rate/cull. The investment in time to
deal with the selection process is going to be brain numbing. Then there is
whatever you might care to do with actual processing.


It does rather depend on what you are photographing. In my case, one
example is showjumping and it is normally quick and easy to review and
discard the run-up and exit. I do find burst mode invaluable for this
because I just can't determine the release point in the way I could with
film cameras. I'm not sure if that's because you get mechanical feedback
with a "real" shutter, or because the (annoying) camera sound isn't well
synchronised. If I don't use continuous shooting I can be nearly a
horse's length out either way.
  #14  
Old September 30th 18, 02:05 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
newshound
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Posts: 458
Default My X-T3 30fps Burst test

On 30/09/2018 10:53, Alfred Molon wrote:
In article .com,
Savageduck says...
All of this electronic shutter burst shot capability is due to much more
powerful CPUs. As the CPUs become more powerful the potential to increase
capture rate from 30fps to 60fps is very possible, but I just can?t see
myself at a sporting event, or airshow where I might normally capture
300-1200 individual frames in several hours of shooting, capturing that many
frames in a matter of seconds rather than hours. memory cards are going to
fill quickly, far quicker than shooting video.


Probably for sports events you don't need 60fps. I guess 10 fps is more
than enough for most events.

You'd only need 60fps to capture such split second events as an arrow
hitting a target for instance.

In my case, even if 60fps are available, in most cases I reduce the rate
to less than 10fps. Haven't encountered yet a situation needing 60fps.

There's a trade-off, but I'd have said that for sport and faster-moving
wildlife the extra speed lets you pick the most aesthetic image where
the legs, wings, or whatever give the best composition. I don't think it
is really "cheating" because you still have to get exposure, focus, and
shutter speed just right as well.
  #15  
Old September 30th 18, 02:14 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
-hh
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Posts: 838
Default My X-T3 30fps Burst test

On Sunday, September 30, 2018 at 2:50:54 AM UTC-4, EllisMorgan wrote:
On 29/09/2018 20:57, Savageduck wrote:

I expanded my experiment this morning, and shot a 72 frame burst @ 30fps with
the electronic shutter, but this time with the shutter speed at 1/2000 rather
than the 1/500 of the first batch. Still SOOC JPEGs with no post adjustment
other than the same synced crop applied to each of the selected 10 frames.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/wi6a2bu0lsewmx2/AACNdkrcs7bzsuPdmLcy9SGla?dl=0

Wow, I can see what buy by spending more than 30+ times on your cameras
than I do. Does this mean that a hummer wing cycle takes about 3/2000
seconds, give or take a bit? That is judging by frames numbered 282-285.
the wings seem most closed in 285 and most open in 286.
If you ever point that camera at a bumble be the results would be
interesting.
Thanks for posting your results.


A quick web search finds a report that the North American hummingbirds' average
wingbeat rate is 53/second. Rounding that off to 50Hz for easier math, that's 1/50
= 0.02sec (20 milliseconds) for each beat. Since each 'beat' is a full up-down cycle,
it further means that a wing will go from bottom position to top position in half that
amount of time (1/(2*50)= .01 sec =10msec).

To determine how much motion a 1/1000sec shutter would have, we can divvy up
the total wing movement into 10 positions, which if the wing motion is arbitrarily
defined as a "6 o'clock to 12 o'clock" arc, would mean a motion-induced blur
equivalent to an average of an ~18 degree arc movement per camera frame. Since
the flap is probably not as large as 180 degrees, this 18 degree arc is an upper limit.

Similarly, given that there's accelerations and decelerations occurring at each end of
the wing flap movement, the motion isn't linear, so the challenge of freezing wing
motion is easier at the inflection points than in mid-flap...the 'actual' average arc
movement slices of this example would be more like "0-10-20-25-35-35-25-20-10-0".


-hh
  #16  
Old September 30th 18, 02:32 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
-hh
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Posts: 838
Default My X-T3 30fps Burst test

On Sunday, September 30, 2018 at 6:45:07 AM UTC-4, newshound wrote:
On 29/09/2018 20:57, Savageduck wrote:
...

The issue remains, regardless of event the result will be hundreds, or
thousands of frames to sort through, and rate/cull. The investment in time to
deal with the selection process is going to be brain numbing. Then there is
whatever you might care to do with actual processing.


It does rather depend on what you are photographing. In my case, one
example is showjumping and it is normally quick and easy to review and
discard the run-up and exit. I do find burst mode invaluable for this
because I just can't determine the release point in the way I could with
film cameras. I'm not sure if that's because you get mechanical feedback
with a "real" shutter, or because the (annoying) camera sound isn't well
synchronised. If I don't use continuous shooting I can be nearly a
horse's length out either way.


Indeed.
For example, for Edgerton's classical image of "How to Make Applesauce at MIT"...

See: http://collection.spencerart.ku.edu/eMuseumPlus

When employing a camera at 10,000fps (1/10,000 shutter speed), the subject's
high rate of motion (approx 2500 ft/sec) still allows ~0.25ft (or 3 inches) motion
across the frame, which in context is twice its total length. As such, an even
higher effective shutter speed is required to active the desired motion freeze,
which was traditionally done by modulating the light source (strobes) instead of
(actually, in addition to) the shutter. For Edgerton's work, his were on the order
of 0.33 microsecond duration...which i roughly (1/(3 million)) sec



-hh
  #17  
Old September 30th 18, 04:18 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Tony Cooper[_2_]
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Posts: 188
Default My X-T3 30fps Burst test

On Sun, 30 Sep 2018 11:45:03 +0100, newshound
wrote:

On 29/09/2018 20:57, Savageduck wrote:
On Sep 29, 2018, Tony Cooper wrote
(in ):



The issue remains, regardless of event the result will be hundreds, or
thousands of frames to sort through, and rate/cull. The investment in time to
deal with the selection process is going to be brain numbing. Then there is
whatever you might care to do with actual processing.


It does rather depend on what you are photographing. In my case, one
example is showjumping and it is normally quick and easy to review and
discard the run-up and exit. I do find burst mode invaluable for this
because I just can't determine the release point in the way I could with
film cameras. I'm not sure if that's because you get mechanical feedback
with a "real" shutter, or because the (annoying) camera sound isn't well
synchronised. If I don't use continuous shooting I can be nearly a
horse's length out either way.


A couple of years ago I was at a show jumping event and there was a
guy there with a long lens and his camera on a tripod with a gimbal
head. He was photographing every horse and rider over that one fence.

I was wandering around photographing riders at different fences and
from different angles.

During a break, we were chatting. I asked him why he was
photographing only that one fence. Turned out he was the photographer
for the club that was competing, and was expected to get a shot of
every rider in the club. Naturally, he wanted that right shot of each
rider.

I was under no such pressure. If I got that right shot, it was for my
own satisfaction.


--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
  #18  
Old October 1st 18, 02:22 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Bill W
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Posts: 1,692
Default My X-T3 30fps Burst test

On Sun, 30 Sep 2018 11:18:27 -0400, Tony Cooper
wrote:

On Sun, 30 Sep 2018 11:45:03 +0100, newshound
wrote:

On 29/09/2018 20:57, Savageduck wrote:
On Sep 29, 2018, Tony Cooper wrote
(in ):



The issue remains, regardless of event the result will be hundreds, or
thousands of frames to sort through, and rate/cull. The investment in time to
deal with the selection process is going to be brain numbing. Then there is
whatever you might care to do with actual processing.


It does rather depend on what you are photographing. In my case, one
example is showjumping and it is normally quick and easy to review and
discard the run-up and exit. I do find burst mode invaluable for this
because I just can't determine the release point in the way I could with
film cameras. I'm not sure if that's because you get mechanical feedback
with a "real" shutter, or because the (annoying) camera sound isn't well
synchronised. If I don't use continuous shooting I can be nearly a
horse's length out either way.


A couple of years ago I was at a show jumping event and there was a
guy there with a long lens


With a what? It's as if you're assuming that there is a common
definition of a long lens, and that everyone here knows what you mean
by that. I'm very confused...
  #19  
Old October 1st 18, 02:32 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Savageduck[_3_]
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Posts: 16,487
Default My X-T3 30fps Burst test

On Sep 30, 2018, Bill W wrote
(in ):

On Sun, 30 Sep 2018 11:18:27 -0400, Tony Cooper
wrote:

On Sun, 30 Sep 2018 11:45:03 +0100, newshound
wrote:

On 29/09/2018 20:57, Savageduck wrote:
On Sep 29, 2018, Tony Cooper wrote
(in ):


The issue remains, regardless of event the result will be hundreds, or
thousands of frames to sort through, and rate/cull. The investment in
time to
deal with the selection process is going to be brain numbing. Then there
is
whatever you might care to do with actual processing.

It does rather depend on what you are photographing. In my case, one
example is showjumping and it is normally quick and easy to review and
discard the run-up and exit. I do find burst mode invaluable for this
because I just can't determine the release point in the way I could with
film cameras. I'm not sure if that's because you get mechanical feedback
with a "real" shutter, or because the (annoying) camera sound isn't well
synchronised. If I don't use continuous shooting I can be nearly a
horse's length out either way.


A couple of years ago I was at a show jumping event and there was a
guy there with a long lens


With a what? It's as if you're assuming that there is a common
definition of a long lens, and that everyone here knows what you mean
by that. I'm very confused...


No! No! No!

Let’s not import the mind numbing “long lens” debate from the *Ping
Tony Cooper* thread to this one. It has already been beaten to death by
*nospam* and others who won’t let it go over there.

--
Regards,
Savageduck

  #20  
Old October 1st 18, 02:40 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Bill W
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,692
Default My X-T3 30fps Burst test

On Sun, 30 Sep 2018 18:32:15 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:

On Sep 30, 2018, Bill W wrote
(in ):

On Sun, 30 Sep 2018 11:18:27 -0400, Tony Cooper
wrote:

On Sun, 30 Sep 2018 11:45:03 +0100, newshound
wrote:

On 29/09/2018 20:57, Savageduck wrote:
On Sep 29, 2018, Tony Cooper wrote
(in ):


The issue remains, regardless of event the result will be hundreds, or
thousands of frames to sort through, and rate/cull. The investment in
time to
deal with the selection process is going to be brain numbing. Then there
is
whatever you might care to do with actual processing.

It does rather depend on what you are photographing. In my case, one
example is showjumping and it is normally quick and easy to review and
discard the run-up and exit. I do find burst mode invaluable for this
because I just can't determine the release point in the way I could with
film cameras. I'm not sure if that's because you get mechanical feedback
with a "real" shutter, or because the (annoying) camera sound isn't well
synchronised. If I don't use continuous shooting I can be nearly a
horse's length out either way.

A couple of years ago I was at a show jumping event and there was a
guy there with a long lens


With a what? It's as if you're assuming that there is a common
definition of a long lens, and that everyone here knows what you mean
by that. I'm very confused...


No! No! No!

Let’s not import the mind numbing “long lens” debate from the *Ping
Tony Cooper* thread to this one. It has already been beaten to death by
*nospam* and others who won’t let it go over there.


I have no self control...
 




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