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#11
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My X-T3 30fps Burst test
On 29/09/2018 20:57, Savageduck wrote:
On Sep 29, 2018, Tony Cooper wrote (in ): On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 11:22:05 -0700, Savageduck wrote: On Sep 29, 2018, Tony Cooper wrote (in ): On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 10:28:46 -0700, Savageduck wrote: You are going to have to differentiate between stills, and video when it comes to presentation intent. Then consider whether, or not you are shooting a massive burst to capture a moment in time, or to analyze a particular movement sequence. Both concepts are useful, but the hunt for the frame of the captured moment to edit in post for presentation has to be chosen from that burst of 30-100, or more frames. A veritable needle in the haystack, and then there is the possibility that you have captured nothing. It should make it even more impressive that Eadweard Muybridge (Muggeridge) took photographs in 1887 that showed that a galloping horse does have all four hoofs off the ground at certain points. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eadweard_Muybridge Burst photography is often utilized by athletic coaches to evaluate an athlete's movements...a baseball pitcher's delivery, a quarterback's passing style, a golfer's swing, or a sprinter's take-off from the blocks. Those photos of a punter you posted might be used to point out needs for improvement. To all of the above I agree. For some there is going to be a need, and some will undoubtably find, or already have a purpose for shooting 30-100 frame bursts at such high frame rates. For me it is a novelty, and most of my action shooting is going to be in the 4-11fps range, if and when I use the burst mode at an event. In your photos of race cars and bicycle racers you can pan. That doesn't work in football or baseball unless you are intending to produce an image where one figure is sharp and the rest are not. Yup! The issue remains, regardless of event the result will be hundreds, or thousands of frames to sort through, and rate/cull. The investment in time to deal with the selection process is going to be brain numbing. Then there is whatever you might care to do with actual processing. As I said, for me this is going to be bit of a novelty, and only used occasionally if I ever have that sort of need arise. Even then I have frame rates in CL of 3.0fps-5.7fps, Mechanical shutter CH frame rates of 8.0fps & 11fps before going to electronic shutter rates of 20fps, and with a 1.25X crop, 10fps, 20fps, or 30fps. I expanded my experiment this morning, and shot a 72 frame burst @ 30fps with the electronic shutter, but this time with the shutter speed at 1/2000 rather than the 1/500 of the first batch. Still SOOC JPEGs with no post adjustment other than the same synced crop applied to each of the selected 10 frames. https://www.dropbox.com/sh/wi6a2bu0lsewmx2/AACNdkrcs7bzsuPdmLcy9SGla?dl=0 Wow, I can see what buy by spending more than 30+ times on your cameras than I do. Does this mean that a hummer wing cycle takes about 3/2000 seconds, give or take a bit? That is judging by frames numbered 282-285. the wings seem most closed in 285 and most open in 286. If you ever point that camera at a bumble be the results would be interesting. Thanks for posting your results. |
#12
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My X-T3 30fps Burst test
In article .com,
Savageduck says... All of this electronic shutter burst shot capability is due to much more powerful CPUs. As the CPUs become more powerful the potential to increase capture rate from 30fps to 60fps is very possible, but I just can?t see myself at a sporting event, or airshow where I might normally capture 300-1200 individual frames in several hours of shooting, capturing that many frames in a matter of seconds rather than hours. memory cards are going to fill quickly, far quicker than shooting video. Probably for sports events you don't need 60fps. I guess 10 fps is more than enough for most events. You'd only need 60fps to capture such split second events as an arrow hitting a target for instance. In my case, even if 60fps are available, in most cases I reduce the rate to less than 10fps. Haven't encountered yet a situation needing 60fps. -- Alfred Molon Olympus E-series DSLRs and micro 4/3 forum at https://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/ https://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site |
#13
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My X-T3 30fps Burst test
On 29/09/2018 20:57, Savageduck wrote:
On Sep 29, 2018, Tony Cooper wrote (in ): The issue remains, regardless of event the result will be hundreds, or thousands of frames to sort through, and rate/cull. The investment in time to deal with the selection process is going to be brain numbing. Then there is whatever you might care to do with actual processing. It does rather depend on what you are photographing. In my case, one example is showjumping and it is normally quick and easy to review and discard the run-up and exit. I do find burst mode invaluable for this because I just can't determine the release point in the way I could with film cameras. I'm not sure if that's because you get mechanical feedback with a "real" shutter, or because the (annoying) camera sound isn't well synchronised. If I don't use continuous shooting I can be nearly a horse's length out either way. |
#14
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My X-T3 30fps Burst test
On 30/09/2018 10:53, Alfred Molon wrote:
In article .com, Savageduck says... All of this electronic shutter burst shot capability is due to much more powerful CPUs. As the CPUs become more powerful the potential to increase capture rate from 30fps to 60fps is very possible, but I just can?t see myself at a sporting event, or airshow where I might normally capture 300-1200 individual frames in several hours of shooting, capturing that many frames in a matter of seconds rather than hours. memory cards are going to fill quickly, far quicker than shooting video. Probably for sports events you don't need 60fps. I guess 10 fps is more than enough for most events. You'd only need 60fps to capture such split second events as an arrow hitting a target for instance. In my case, even if 60fps are available, in most cases I reduce the rate to less than 10fps. Haven't encountered yet a situation needing 60fps. There's a trade-off, but I'd have said that for sport and faster-moving wildlife the extra speed lets you pick the most aesthetic image where the legs, wings, or whatever give the best composition. I don't think it is really "cheating" because you still have to get exposure, focus, and shutter speed just right as well. |
#15
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My X-T3 30fps Burst test
On Sunday, September 30, 2018 at 2:50:54 AM UTC-4, EllisMorgan wrote:
On 29/09/2018 20:57, Savageduck wrote: I expanded my experiment this morning, and shot a 72 frame burst @ 30fps with the electronic shutter, but this time with the shutter speed at 1/2000 rather than the 1/500 of the first batch. Still SOOC JPEGs with no post adjustment other than the same synced crop applied to each of the selected 10 frames. https://www.dropbox.com/sh/wi6a2bu0lsewmx2/AACNdkrcs7bzsuPdmLcy9SGla?dl=0 Wow, I can see what buy by spending more than 30+ times on your cameras than I do. Does this mean that a hummer wing cycle takes about 3/2000 seconds, give or take a bit? That is judging by frames numbered 282-285. the wings seem most closed in 285 and most open in 286. If you ever point that camera at a bumble be the results would be interesting. Thanks for posting your results. A quick web search finds a report that the North American hummingbirds' average wingbeat rate is 53/second. Rounding that off to 50Hz for easier math, that's 1/50 = 0.02sec (20 milliseconds) for each beat. Since each 'beat' is a full up-down cycle, it further means that a wing will go from bottom position to top position in half that amount of time (1/(2*50)= .01 sec =10msec). To determine how much motion a 1/1000sec shutter would have, we can divvy up the total wing movement into 10 positions, which if the wing motion is arbitrarily defined as a "6 o'clock to 12 o'clock" arc, would mean a motion-induced blur equivalent to an average of an ~18 degree arc movement per camera frame. Since the flap is probably not as large as 180 degrees, this 18 degree arc is an upper limit. Similarly, given that there's accelerations and decelerations occurring at each end of the wing flap movement, the motion isn't linear, so the challenge of freezing wing motion is easier at the inflection points than in mid-flap...the 'actual' average arc movement slices of this example would be more like "0-10-20-25-35-35-25-20-10-0". -hh |
#16
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My X-T3 30fps Burst test
On Sunday, September 30, 2018 at 6:45:07 AM UTC-4, newshound wrote:
On 29/09/2018 20:57, Savageduck wrote: ... The issue remains, regardless of event the result will be hundreds, or thousands of frames to sort through, and rate/cull. The investment in time to deal with the selection process is going to be brain numbing. Then there is whatever you might care to do with actual processing. It does rather depend on what you are photographing. In my case, one example is showjumping and it is normally quick and easy to review and discard the run-up and exit. I do find burst mode invaluable for this because I just can't determine the release point in the way I could with film cameras. I'm not sure if that's because you get mechanical feedback with a "real" shutter, or because the (annoying) camera sound isn't well synchronised. If I don't use continuous shooting I can be nearly a horse's length out either way. Indeed. For example, for Edgerton's classical image of "How to Make Applesauce at MIT"... See: http://collection.spencerart.ku.edu/eMuseumPlus When employing a camera at 10,000fps (1/10,000 shutter speed), the subject's high rate of motion (approx 2500 ft/sec) still allows ~0.25ft (or 3 inches) motion across the frame, which in context is twice its total length. As such, an even higher effective shutter speed is required to active the desired motion freeze, which was traditionally done by modulating the light source (strobes) instead of (actually, in addition to) the shutter. For Edgerton's work, his were on the order of 0.33 microsecond duration...which i roughly (1/(3 million)) sec -hh |
#17
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My X-T3 30fps Burst test
On Sun, 30 Sep 2018 11:45:03 +0100, newshound
wrote: On 29/09/2018 20:57, Savageduck wrote: On Sep 29, 2018, Tony Cooper wrote (in ): The issue remains, regardless of event the result will be hundreds, or thousands of frames to sort through, and rate/cull. The investment in time to deal with the selection process is going to be brain numbing. Then there is whatever you might care to do with actual processing. It does rather depend on what you are photographing. In my case, one example is showjumping and it is normally quick and easy to review and discard the run-up and exit. I do find burst mode invaluable for this because I just can't determine the release point in the way I could with film cameras. I'm not sure if that's because you get mechanical feedback with a "real" shutter, or because the (annoying) camera sound isn't well synchronised. If I don't use continuous shooting I can be nearly a horse's length out either way. A couple of years ago I was at a show jumping event and there was a guy there with a long lens and his camera on a tripod with a gimbal head. He was photographing every horse and rider over that one fence. I was wandering around photographing riders at different fences and from different angles. During a break, we were chatting. I asked him why he was photographing only that one fence. Turned out he was the photographer for the club that was competing, and was expected to get a shot of every rider in the club. Naturally, he wanted that right shot of each rider. I was under no such pressure. If I got that right shot, it was for my own satisfaction. -- Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida |
#18
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My X-T3 30fps Burst test
On Sun, 30 Sep 2018 11:18:27 -0400, Tony Cooper
wrote: On Sun, 30 Sep 2018 11:45:03 +0100, newshound wrote: On 29/09/2018 20:57, Savageduck wrote: On Sep 29, 2018, Tony Cooper wrote (in ): The issue remains, regardless of event the result will be hundreds, or thousands of frames to sort through, and rate/cull. The investment in time to deal with the selection process is going to be brain numbing. Then there is whatever you might care to do with actual processing. It does rather depend on what you are photographing. In my case, one example is showjumping and it is normally quick and easy to review and discard the run-up and exit. I do find burst mode invaluable for this because I just can't determine the release point in the way I could with film cameras. I'm not sure if that's because you get mechanical feedback with a "real" shutter, or because the (annoying) camera sound isn't well synchronised. If I don't use continuous shooting I can be nearly a horse's length out either way. A couple of years ago I was at a show jumping event and there was a guy there with a long lens With a what? It's as if you're assuming that there is a common definition of a long lens, and that everyone here knows what you mean by that. I'm very confused... |
#19
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My X-T3 30fps Burst test
On Sep 30, 2018, Bill W wrote
(in ): On Sun, 30 Sep 2018 11:18:27 -0400, Tony Cooper wrote: On Sun, 30 Sep 2018 11:45:03 +0100, newshound wrote: On 29/09/2018 20:57, Savageduck wrote: On Sep 29, 2018, Tony Cooper wrote (in ): The issue remains, regardless of event the result will be hundreds, or thousands of frames to sort through, and rate/cull. The investment in time to deal with the selection process is going to be brain numbing. Then there is whatever you might care to do with actual processing. It does rather depend on what you are photographing. In my case, one example is showjumping and it is normally quick and easy to review and discard the run-up and exit. I do find burst mode invaluable for this because I just can't determine the release point in the way I could with film cameras. I'm not sure if that's because you get mechanical feedback with a "real" shutter, or because the (annoying) camera sound isn't well synchronised. If I don't use continuous shooting I can be nearly a horse's length out either way. A couple of years ago I was at a show jumping event and there was a guy there with a long lens With a what? It's as if you're assuming that there is a common definition of a long lens, and that everyone here knows what you mean by that. I'm very confused... No! No! No! Let’s not import the mind numbing “long lens” debate from the *Ping Tony Cooper* thread to this one. It has already been beaten to death by *nospam* and others who won’t let it go over there. -- Regards, Savageduck |
#20
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My X-T3 30fps Burst test
On Sun, 30 Sep 2018 18:32:15 -0700, Savageduck
wrote: On Sep 30, 2018, Bill W wrote (in ): On Sun, 30 Sep 2018 11:18:27 -0400, Tony Cooper wrote: On Sun, 30 Sep 2018 11:45:03 +0100, newshound wrote: On 29/09/2018 20:57, Savageduck wrote: On Sep 29, 2018, Tony Cooper wrote (in ): The issue remains, regardless of event the result will be hundreds, or thousands of frames to sort through, and rate/cull. The investment in time to deal with the selection process is going to be brain numbing. Then there is whatever you might care to do with actual processing. It does rather depend on what you are photographing. In my case, one example is showjumping and it is normally quick and easy to review and discard the run-up and exit. I do find burst mode invaluable for this because I just can't determine the release point in the way I could with film cameras. I'm not sure if that's because you get mechanical feedback with a "real" shutter, or because the (annoying) camera sound isn't well synchronised. If I don't use continuous shooting I can be nearly a horse's length out either way. A couple of years ago I was at a show jumping event and there was a guy there with a long lens With a what? It's as if you're assuming that there is a common definition of a long lens, and that everyone here knows what you mean by that. I'm very confused... No! No! No! Let’s not import the mind numbing “long lens” debate from the *Ping Tony Cooper* thread to this one. It has already been beaten to death by *nospam* and others who won’t let it go over there. I have no self control... |
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