In article , RJH wrote:

Rich A:
There is no argument, some painter and sculptors are gifted

Sandman:
Only if they're autistic. Skill isn't something people are born
with, skill is born from an interest, and that interest means you
do it, a lot.

Like Bob Ross said: "Talent is pursued interest. Anything that
you're willing to practice, you can do".

I think the flaw in your argument is that some people will only be
willing to practice if they have the ability, and in some cases,
that ability may be innate.

Of course not. You're "willing" to practice something if you have an interest. If
you find yourself unwilling to practice to become good, that just means you're
not all that interested in becoming good.

For a photography group, this should be easy to relate to. How a lot of people
really want to take awesome photos without learning exactly how. So they use apps
with filters in their phones, or buy compact cameras that have retro filters
built in etc etc. It's a short cut for those that want to create something that
looks sort of special, but require little skill.

With an interest in photography, you learn about the camera, about lighting,
about composition. You spend a lot of time practicing, looking at your photos
that didn't turn up as good as you had hoped, and adjust accordingly. It takes
time and isn't something you're "born" with.

For example, athletes. But more on-topic, good and colour-accurate
eyesight, say. So, 'willing' is rather a loaded term - 'able' may
be better?

I've already been over this a few times. Some things do require physical
abilities that make it easier, or lack of handicap's that make it harder.

But that's a flawed argument, because being tall doesn't mean you have an in-born
talet to become a basket ball player, and having long fingers doesn't mean you
have an in-born talent for playing the piano.

Sandman:
The "born with it" is a myth, probably created by people that
hasn't practiced enough.

I'd probably agree that nobody is 'born a da Vinci', but you're more
likely to become one given a set of formative circumstances. 'More
likely' are long odds :-)

"Formative circumstances" - Absolutely! Born with it - not a chance. Talent -
nope.

For myself, I'm not too good at photography because I haven't
practised enough - no excuses here!

Indeed.

--
Sandman